Newbies

[paul burrell]

Originally posted by hausdok

Hi Paul,

So, are you going to report her to your state's real estate board?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

The American Medical Association, Mortgage Brokers Association, Board of Realtors and the American Bar Association Are there to protect their own interest of their respective members. All these associations individually including the Realtors association have many times the power of Home inspectors and their associations.

Doctors do not sue doctors, lawyers dont sue each other, Mortgage brokers don't tell on each other and Realtors etc, etc. Exception to this rule is if there is $$$$ to be made.

Conclusion:

I think I would be wasting my time. Anyway our associations (such as ASHI and others) are aware this problem and it is better they handle it on a collective basis.

Paul Burrell

[paul burrell]

Why isn't all "grandfathering" tossed and why isn't every inspector, regardless of how long he/she has been in this business or the number of inspections done, forced to submit to a peer evaluation to prove he/she even belongs here?

Why indeed.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Mike,

Not intending to be a smart alec but if all inspectors were tossed who would be left to perform peer reviews?

Paul Burrell

[Jim Morrison]

Why isn't all "grandfathering" tossed and why isn't every inspector, regardless of how long he/she has been in this business or the number of inspections done, forced to submit to a peer evaluation to prove he/she even belongs here?

Why indeed.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Well, because 1/2 of this planet is in chaos the other 1/2 is asleep at the wheel, and home inspectors of questionable competence is only really important to -at most- a couple of dozen people on Earth.

I'm not saying we shouldn't raise the bar, I'm just saying that when looked at through the prism of global persepctive, we're only visible to ourselves.

[homnspector]

"Anyway our associations (such as ASHI and others) are aware this problem and it is better they handle it on a collective basis."

Most organizations will not be too interested as they will become redundant.

[robert1966]

I get calls all the time, one guy had his licenses but his business is slow. He would pay me 30% of all inspection referrals he completed for me. Who gets sued though?

Robert

www.atexinspects.com

[qhinspect]

I think home inspectors need to start running their business so there is an opportunity for growth. Many home inspectors are happy with running their business with little cost from a small room in the house. I charge $325 up to 1,000 sq ft and $400 for 1,001 up to 3,500 sq ft which makes it hard to sell due to the $200 to $350 most bedroom office companies charge. Then many of these small bedroom office companies still rely on their wifes to make it.

Rent an office building, hire a secretary that is not your wife or child, pay your office bills and everything else that goes with that, pay all the other bills required to stay a home inspector and then pay yourself $20 an hour for a 40 hour week and I know most home inspectors would be out of business in a normal market. That's not good.

I strongly feel that a business should work for me, I shouldn't have to work for the business. Think about it.

[Bain]

I think home inspectors need to start running their business so there is an opportunity for growth. Many home inspectors are happy with running their business with little cost from a small room in the house. I charge $325 up to 1,000 sq ft and $400 for 1,001 up to 3,500 sq ft which makes it hard to sell due to the $200 to $350 most bedroom office companies charge. Then many of these small bedroom office companies still rely on their wifes to make it.

Rent an office building, hire a secretary that is not your wife or child, pay your office bills and everything else that goes with that, pay all the other bills required to stay a home inspector and then pay yourself $20 an hour for a 40 hour week and I know most home inspectors would be out of business in a normal market. That's not good.

I strongly feel that a business should work for me, I shouldn't have to work for the business. Think about it.

Maybe I'm being thick, but I read this twice and still don't get your point.

[hausdok]

FWIW, here's my interpretation of what he wrote:

He's ticked at low-ballers who aren't interested in expanding their business and take work from him.

He thinks the home office mentality is to blame and that if we didn't work off a shoestring budget we'd all see the light. He feels that if we had to have all of the accoutrement of a 'real' business that we'd realize that we aren't paying ourselves enough and then we'd all raise our prices and we'd all be better off for it.

Could be I've misinterpreted it.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Bain]

FWIW, here's my interpretation of what he wrote:

He's ticked at low-ballers who aren't interested in expanding their business and take work from him.

He thinks the home office mentality is to blame and that if we didn't work off a shoestring budget we'd all see the light. He feels that if we had to have all of the accoutrement of a 'real' business that we'd realize that we aren't paying ourselves enough and then we'd all raise our prices and we'd all be better off for it.

Could be I've misinterpreted it.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

If that's what he was saying, I'm in complete agreement.

I recently looked at an office building for a service company. In the interest of discretion, I'll say the company was a Florist. It occurred to me while I was schlepping around the office-to-be, that, here was a business that sold flowers, and it was successful enough to buy a 400K building with enough green left over to spend 50K--according to the buyer--to redecorate and outfit the place. I crawl through rat poop and risk disease. I scale roofs and risk breaking my back or worse. I check out houses and risk getting sued whether I deserve it or not.

But me?

I can't afford a 400K office building and the staff that would be necessary to fill it. That seemed a little screwy to me, as I slogged myself up a 24-foot ladder to look at the roof.

Point being? No disrespect to Kevin, I just didn't get it. But now I got it.

[Marc]

This profession is going to remain that way until the average Joe home buyer is better able to separate the chaffe from the wheat with nothing more than the yellow pages, the newspaper and the internet.

A newbie with barely the ability to tell a stud from a joist but with enough money can buy a franchise, any franchise, get the appearance of an accomplished inspector from a home buyer's perspective, and look just like someone who has practiced his hand at inspecting for decades.

I've said it before and I'll say it again....We need the NHIE on a tiered system. Apprentice, journeyman and master's level. Then the public will much better be able to pick the better inspectors from the newbie's and judge for themselves if higher fees and better performance suits them or if they would be happier with a lower qualification with reduced fees. When that day comes, if it ever does, at least the upper tier inspectors can look forward to the benefit of the business working for them instead of vice versa.

Just my humble opinion.

Marc

[GrantJones]

I've said it before and I'll say it again....We need the NHIE on a tiered system. Apprentice, journeyman and master's level. Then the public will much better be able to pick the better inspectors from the newbie's and judge for themselves if higher fees and better performance suits them or if they would be happier with a lower qualification with reduced fees. When that day comes, if it ever does, at least the upper tier inspectors can look forward to the benefit of the business working for them instead of vice versa.

Just my humble opinion.

Marc

Marc, I agree with you in principle, even as a newbie myself. I do know what a joist is, though... Anyway, that will never happen as long as inspectors are mostly independents who don't want to train their future competition. We're not a bunch of contractors who can work for firms on construction projects. As long as that's the system, then it's up to us individually to work the business and gain experience as quickly as possible. I hated being in this position, but I don't claim to be anything I'm not. I would like to have had more time with an experienced inspector before jumping in the deep end, to be honest.

Grant

[Scottpat]

I've said it before and I'll say it again....We need the NHIE on a tiered system. Apprentice, journeyman and master's level. Then the public will much better be able to pick the better inspectors from the newbie's and judge for themselves if higher fees and better performance suits them or if they would be happier with a lower qualification with reduced fees. When that day comes, if it ever does, at least the upper tier inspectors can look forward to the benefit of the business working for them instead of vice versa.

Just my humble opinion.

Marc

I agree with some of what you have said, but I do have a few questions that many have been unable to answer over the years.

1. Who would pay for the creation of the new advanced exams? You are looking in the area of $150K to $200K to get it up and running.

2. Would you be willing to pay $250 (or whatever it might be) to take an advanced exam when it has no guarantee of increasing your income?

3. What would be a persons incentive for taking an advanced exam?

Many of you know that I have been on the EBPHI board for several years. I know the exam business inside and out, I also have a good feel for the profession and what will and will not work. The largest obstacles in what you are wishing for are the cost of creating new advanced exams and maintaining them. Cost of maintaining is about $25K per year and $75K to $100K every 5 years.

Another consideration is that EBPHI (who owns the NHIE) is not a membership organization and does not certify anyone or anything. With the three designations you would need a new or current membership organization to go through a recognized certification program similar to what ASHI did. It ain't cheap or easy.......

[Marc]

The largest obstacles in what you are wishing for are the cost of creating new advanced exams and maintaining them. Cost of maintaining is about $25K per year and $75K to $100K every 5 years.

I appreciate your response Scott. Curious...How are the EBPHI's expenses funded now?

I'd gladly pay the $250 to take the exam. Heck, I spend more than 10 times that much each year on advertising but that designation (Journeyman or Master) would likely sell more than anything else. I'm assuming that inspectors would be prohibited from claiming the Journeyman or Masters title until they passed the requisite exams.

Marc

[resqman]

I agree with some of what you have said, but I do have a few questions that many have been unable to answer over the years.

1. Who would pay for the creation of the new advanced exams? You are looking in the area of $150K to $200K to get it up and running.

2. Would you be willing to pay $250 (or whatever it might be) to take an advanced exam when it has no guarantee of increasing your income?

3. What would be a persons incentive for taking an advanced exam?

Many of you know that I have been on the EBPHI board for several years. I know the exam business inside and out, I also have a good feel for the profession and what will and will not work. The largest obstacles in what you are wishing for are the cost of creating new advanced exams and maintaining them. Cost of maintaining is about $25K per year and $75K to $100K every 5 years.

Yes, I would be willing to spend $250 per exam for multiple layers of exams that are nationally recognized to differentiate myself from other inspectors. Yes, I would be willing to pay an annual renewal fee of $100-$200 a year to maintain that certification through approved continuing education. Multiple layers of certification/recognition may not initially guarantee increased fees but I believe within 5 years of implementation it would create a tiered fee system.

I would also pay to have an organization market the idea to licensed states to adopt the layered system and recognize the national certification system.

I know many home inspectors thrive on the independent side of the business. As long as home inspectors continue to think like that, the profession will never advance beyond the perception we are interchangeable and customers select us based on fee, rather than knowledge.

I also think a bachelor's degree program would add creditability to the profession. Between business management, accounting, computers, building science, technical writing, marketing, salesmanship skills, communication, work place safety, and code certification there is plenty of stuff to develop a degree program. This could become a basis to build the layered certification program.

The obvious problem is there is only a need for 40-50,000? inspectors nationwide. Is the market large enough to fund the upstart of such programs? Not likely or it would have already been done. With the advent of distance learning and online universities, the cost to deliver a BS degree over the nation is relatively easy. Sure there are many experienced inspectors who are so entrenched that would never earn their degree thinking they know it all. But for those who choose to complete the program, it provides creditability that can be used to demand higher fees.

[Bain]

Don't forget, too, that our profession is still in its nascent stages. We were unheard of thirty years ago. Increasingly, I'm hearing, "Our last inspector stunk, missed a bunch of stuff, so we don't mind paying more for you to look at the house for us." There's a learning curve for the public, but it's a slow process, since people don't buy and sell that often.

[Bain]

The largest obstacles in what you are wishing for are the cost of creating new advanced exams and maintaining them. Cost of maintaining is about $25K per year and $75K to $100K every 5 years.

I appreciate your response Scott. Curious...How are the EBPHI's expenses funded now?

I'd gladly pay the $250 to take the exam. Heck, I spend more than 10 times that much each year on advertising but that designation (Journeyman or Master) would likely sell more than anything else. I'm assuming that inspectors would be prohibited from claiming the Journeyman or Masters title until they passed the requisite exams.

Marc

Don't forget, though, Marc . . . there are engineers who make relatively low salaries their entire careers, and there are others who become outrageously successful. Beyond the skill set, there are also esoterics like personality, communication skills, business acumen, leadership, and plain ol' aggressiveness. I doubt the stars in the engineering field are exponentially more gifted than their lesser paid peers, but rather they have other skills and gifts--not related to engineering--that engender success.

[resqman]

Not intending to be a smart alec but if all inspectors were tossed who would be left to perform peer reviews?

ASHI has a similar program in place now. Several ASHI members inspect a given home as a group. They produce a list of defects and then rank them in order. The top 20 defects are defined as Must Find. Canidates are given 2 hours to inspect the home and told to ignore the roof. There are given an addtional 2 hours to organize their notes and then make an oral presentation to the review committee. If they find the 20 Must Find, they pass. Most inspectors fail on the first attempt. Once you have completed the review as a canidate, you qualify to sit on the reveiw committee. Certainly not a perfect system but it is a Peer Review of field work. Those you partcipate said that they learn as much as a committee member as a canidate.

[kurt]

Well, because 1/2 of this planet is in chaos the other 1/2 is asleep at the wheel, and home inspectors of questionable competence is only really important to -at most- a couple of dozen people on Earth.

I'm not saying we shouldn't raise the bar, I'm just saying that when looked at through the prism of global persepctive, we're only visible to ourselves.

I thought I'd remembered you saying something like that several years ago; I took a second look and discovered that you did say something like this several years ago.

S'funny how old thread get resurrected.

[sepefrio]

It really is plain and simple IMHO. As long as HI's in general continue to fight amongst themselves as much as or more than against any other negative aspect, the HI profession in general will never be taken serious.