Required compliance with installation instructions

[Marc]

There was someone here who once mentioned that the IRC required compliance with James Hardi installation instructions for exterior cladding.

Anyone know where that is in the IRC?

I've a show-down this AM with a builder.

Thanks.

Marc

[Scottpat]

It is in 703.10 of the IRC... Does not specify James Hardy, just manufacturer.

[Marc]

I don't see it in the 06' IRC. Is it a later version that has that?

Marc

[inspector57]

R703.10.1 Panel siding. Fiber-cement panels shall comply with the requirements of ASTM C1186, Type A, minimum Grade II. Panels shall be installed with the long dimension either parallel or perpendicular to framing. Vertical and horizontal joints shall occur over framing members and shall be sealed with caulking, covered with battens or shall be designed to comply with Section R703.1. Panel siding shall be installed with fasteners according to Table R703.4 or approved manufacturer's installation instructions.

Does this help? 2009 IRC

[inspector57]

This may be what you are thinking:

R703.12 Adhered masonry veneer installation. Adhered masonry veneer shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

[Marc]

R703.10.1 Panel siding. Fiber-cement panels shall comply with the requirements of ASTM C1186, Type A, minimum Grade II. Panels shall be installed with the long dimension either parallel or perpendicular to framing. Vertical and horizontal joints shall occur over framing members and shall be sealed with caulking, covered with battens or shall be designed to comply with Section R703.1. Panel siding shall be installed with fasteners according to Table R703.4 or approved manufacturer's installation instructions.

Does this help? 2009 IRC

Not quite. This builder left out the starter strip and the bottom edge of the first course is just above the bottom of the sill plate. Very close to soil also. Basically just a bad installation (brick veneer, cement board stucco and hardi-panel all done very poorly) on this new construction and client is asking for backup at the walkthrough.

Marc

Click to Enlarge

62.72 KB

Click to Enlarge

78.55 KB

Click to Enlarge

61.91 KB

[John Kogel]

Hardie, y'all. []

The builder can't say that is good work.

[Marc]

Hardie, y'all. []

The builder can't say that is good work.

He'll be very defensive and argumentative if he's like most builders here.

Sometimes I wonder if I should take the ICC exam and register with the state as a 3rd party code inspector. That'll give me more leverage when buyers of new construction homes ask for help.

I'd up my fees to pay for all the CE requirements that 3rd parties need to have. I just don't know if I would want all the new enemies I'll make.

The existing 3rd parties here are a joke. Builders buy them.

Marc

[Bryan]

See if these help

From the 2006 IRC:

R102.1 General.

Where, in any specific case, different sections of this code specify different materials, methods of construction or other requirements, the most restrictive shall govern. Where there is a conflict between a general requirement and a specific requirement, the specific requirement shall be applicable.

R703.10.2 Horizontal lap siding.

Lap siding shall be lapped a minimum of 1" inches (32 mm) and shall have the ends sealed with caulking, covered with an H-section joint cover, or located over a strip of flashing. Lap siding courses may be installed with the fastener heads exposed or concealed, according to approved manufacturer's' installation instructions. ( not exactly what you may be looking for; however, it does indicated per manufacture)

[Bryan]

Here is another that may help:

R106.1.2 Manufacturer's installation instructions.

Manufacturer's installation instructions, as required by this code, shall be available on the job site at the time of inspection.

[Bill Kibbel]

IRC 2012

R703.3.2 Horizontal siding.

Horizontal lap siding shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer?s recommendations.

[Marc]

Thanks to everyone. Bill K's find is what I was hoping would be there. I don't have a copy of the 2012 IRC but it's the law in LA since 1 January 2014 so that's great. I'll need to buy a copy.

Project manager showed up instead of Builder. Went well. Builders fight but project managers have the company image to defend so he was surprisingly accommodating. Buyer thrilled.

Thanks for the help.

Marc

[Scottpat]

Why even battle with builders or whoever? Just report what you find, document your findings and if they want to argue just walk away. It's not our fight(unless it is your own home), all we are hired to do is inspect and report our findings, not fight the battle. This is where the client or buyer needs to get involved.

[gtblum]

Why even battle with builders or whoever? Just report what you find, document your findings and if they want to argue just walk away. It's not our fight(unless it is your own home), all we are hired to do is inspect and report our findings, not fight the battle. This is where the client or buyer needs to get involved.

I don't disagree with that.

However, You know damn well they're going to bring the nonsense our way, anyway. So, why not jump in, stand up to these guys with some documentation, and settle it before they have a chance to weasel out of it and run their mouths behind your back in an attempt to discredit you, like people will?

Your client probably won't stand a snowball's chance in hell of explaining it on their own. They'll likely appreciate your effort, and gain confidence in knowing they hired the right guy. They won't forget it.

I'd rather they told ten people I stood my ground for them, than give the contractor a chance to tell a hundred people, I didn't know what I was talking about.

[Marc]

Why even battle with builders or whoever? Just report what you find, document your findings and if they want to argue just walk away. It's not our fight(unless it is your own home), all we are hired to do is inspect and report our findings, not fight the battle. This is where the client or buyer needs to get involved.

I'm with Gary. Client asked for technical representation. They (a young couple) can't talk on the Builder's level like I can. I can get more for them than they can alone with the builder.

Marc

[AHI in AR]

I agree with Gary and Marc that sometimes you just gotta step up and help out your client. I've done it, and I'm sure a lot of you have also. In addition to simply feeling like the right thing to do, the time spent on things like this pays dividends multiple times over in additional business later down the road. People love it when they think you are really working only for them. As Marc mentioned, this was a young couple. Not only will they likely buy additional homes in the future, it's almost a given that they know other younger people who will be buying homes.

[Jim Baird]

As an AHJ I wrote up window installs on new work that ignored instructions. How did I know? The instructions were still glued to the inside glass at eye level. Builder was simply flatfooted and drop-jawed.

[mjr6550]

Hardie, y'all. []

The builder can't say that is good work.

He'll be very defensive and argumentative if he's like most builders here.

Sometimes I wonder if I should take the ICC exam and register with the state as a 3rd party code inspector. That'll give me more leverage when buyers of new construction homes ask for help.

I'd up my fees to pay for all the CE requirements that 3rd parties need to have. I just don't know if I would want all the new enemies I'll make.

The existing 3rd parties here are a joke. Builders buy them.

Marc

I have the ICC certifications for Electric, Plumbing, Building, and Mechanical. That means I am certified by ICC. For me that is enough to argue with a builder (who probably never rear a code book). I don't see the need to register with the state unless you plan on performing code inspections. Around here I don't think private code inspectors are paid much money (I'm referring to employees of private code inspection agencies).

[Les]

For the record- I agree with Scott P. Could be that attitude matures over time in this business. I do fight the battles quite often and get paid pretty good for doing it. God knows I like a good fight and don't hesitate to engage, but seldom freely defend my inspection findings. As Walter Jowers says "...your mileage may vary."

[kurt]

As an AHJ I wrote up window installs on new work that ignored instructions. How did I know? The instructions were still glued to the inside glass at eye level. Builder was simply flatfooted and drop-jawed.

I love doing that; happens a couple times every year. I point out a problem, there's the usual pushback, so I grab the instructions off the window/door/shingle pack/whatever and show anyone that's interested.

There's something extra special about taking the instruction sheet off the component that's not installed correctly to prove the point.

[Jim Baird]

In the early days of hardi type lap siding, as an AHJ I entered the site of a custom-build where the builder's siding crew had faced-nailed every course on every stud with galvanized roofing nails, flat heads fully half-inch wide. It was the worst looking thing imaginable. A painter was there, pacing, ranting, cursing. The builder said, "Them nails are what the building supply told me I had to use." I walked him over to the long cardboard boxes still laying on the ground and pointed to the instructions, which called for blind nails and face-nails with .22" heads only where needed. I am not sure whether he could read at all.

[Erby]

Gotta Love It! when that happens. Just brings a smile to my face.