Stone Veneer Installation

[Ben H]

Over the past few years I've seen some really screwed up installs of concrete stone veneer. I called a few manufactures and they didn't seem to offer any kind of install manual, only pointing me to the MVMA guide. But really I got the whole "We just make the stuff, it's up to you to put it on correctly vibe."

I was curious if you guys are seeing this stuff fail yet? I got called in by a homeowner last year on a two year old house that was falling to pieces. I'd post pics but we are prepping for court. 3 new construction homes this week and they all were jacked up as well.

I've never seen drainage planes, no gaps with sealant at door and windows, and flashing, what's that? They just slap it up and mortar the hell out of everything it touches. I was wondering if this is a KY thing, or is it botched all over.

If it is jacked up, what are you guys saying about it. I can foresee lots of houses ending up like my two year old place where the whole front wall is rotten and molded.

[Scottpat]

Yep, I see bad installs often. I look at it as Bumpy Stucco and look for the similar attributes as hardcoat stucco should have. I note what I see and what is missing or should be installed. Yes, it ticks folks off (Builders) but I back it up with the following guide if I do not know the specific brand on the home. If they want to argue the point I tell them to provide justification for what they have done.

This is a good faux stone install guide that I use often.

Download Attachment: Culture_ stone_install_instructions.pdf

1436.74?KB

[Darren]

I did one about a year ago on a 1.1 million brand new house that my clients passed on. The builder sent me a letter from the installer saying it was done correctly and all that other BS.

I sent all the code info to my client who backed out of the deal.

To be honest, I'm still waiting for the lawsuit to come.

[John Kogel]

Thanks, Scott. That looks like a very good guide.

I see an occasional loose piece here but not so much damage to the sheathing. Maybe just lucky so far, but I believe it can be done well. Most important is proper flashing and a good roof overhang, IMO. People shouldn't think it is waterproof, because it ain't.

[mark parlee]

We had a discussion in this thread way back: https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... IC_ID=8612

Since then I have been involved in 15 different cases of failures in three states. In addition to those I am working on 8 more in my area.

I October I had another article published in the JLC that has a lot more info the the 08 article.

This is an ongoing problem that many are starting to recognize but still remain a little reticent to bring it to the forefront of the conversation.

Download Attachment: ACMV JLC October 2013.pdf

564.22 KB

[kurt]

Nice article. Very helpful.

I rarely see the stuff, thankfully. I've always treated it like stucco. This article gives me some ammo for those stupid letters from the installer telling me "it's installed correctly".

[Ben H]

I wish I could post pics of the house with all the problems. As soon as the dust settles I will. They knew they had a problem after 16 months, the curtain rod fell because the drywall was so wet it couldn't hold the weight any longer. Lots of rot and mold.

[inspector57]

We had a discussion in this thread way back: https://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum ... IC_ID=8612

Since then I have been involved in 15 different cases of failures in three states. In addition to those I am working on 8 more in my area.

I October I had another article published in the JLC that has a lot more info the the 08 article.

This is an ongoing problem that many are starting to recognize but still remain a little reticent to bring it to the forefront of the conversation.

Download Attachment: ACMV JLC October 2013.pdf

564.22?KB

Excellent article, thanks for posting it.

[John Dirks Jr]

99 out of 100 stone or adhered concrete masonry jobs here in Maryland are wrong too. I look at listing pictures and see the stuff. I'm already locked and loaded before I get on site.

[jjeffzehnder]

Similar issues here in NC. WE are all waiting for the lawsuits!

[Eric B]

I October I had another article published in the JLC that has a lot more info the the 08 article.

I subscribed to the JLC for many years but the articles and diagrams seemed to veer away from installation practices and I didn't find the mag as useful. Your article is of the caliber I was accustomed to.

[mark parlee]

Thanks Eric

I do appreciate that. It does seem that we are in a time where everyone wants it to look good but do not want to spend the money for the quality details and installation that will stand the test of time.

You ought to see and hear the kick-back that I get in my area when I get called in to investigate a failure.

At times my seemingly worst enemy is the local chapter of the HBA of which I am a member. It is like it's a good old boys club where everyone wants to get together and have a few beers and slap each other on the back and say good job.

I have had several members builds that I have been called in to review. Think that doesn't make a mess of things!!

[hausdok]

Hi Mark,

I've been writing every installation up for years. It was only last Wednesday that I found an installation where the installer had done most of the things recommended by the MVMA guidelines. It was the first time I'd found flashings used at the vertical transitions and a wide back-rod packed joint tooled with flexible sealant between the veneer and trim. The guy used horizontal flashings between the veneer and the wood above it and every penetrations through the veneer had head flashings with end dams. It wasn't perfect; he didn't leave a gap at the bottom - he put the veneer right on the hardscaping - and he didn't use any sort of weep screed, but it was better than anything I'd previously seen or had written up.

I've written up a lot of houses built by that particular company. I couldn't help wondering whether the guy who'd put on that veneer was a new guy or a guy I'd written up in the past who has started to change his techniques.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Marc]

Thanks Eric

I do appreciate that. It does seem that we are in a time where everyone wants it to look good but do not want to spend the money for the quality details and installation that will stand the test of time.

You ought to see and hear the kick-back that I get in my area when I get called in to investigate a failure.

At times my seemingly worst enemy is the local chapter of the HBA of which I am a member. It is like it's a good old boys club where everyone wants to get together and have a few beers and slap each other on the back and say good job.

I have had several members builds that I have been called in to review. Think that doesn't make a mess of things!!

Curious. Why did you join the HBA?

Marc

[mark parlee]

Mike

I have reviewed a lot of these installations and seldom see the details done correctly. The problem I would call out on the one that seems to have everything right above the plate line yet adhered directly to the foundation is that they just sealed up and dammed up the assembly.

Any incidental moisture that needs to drain will be dammed and stored at the plate line in this assembly. I have looked at a few of these done this way and the entire band joist was rotted out.

They need to run the WRB over the top of the weep screed and let it drain to daylight. These assemblies are nothing other that a stucco assembly with rocks glued on for the final finish.

Marc

I have been in the construction trades and business for 37 years and am also a builder although I don?t do high volume of new builds. My main focus these days is the consulting, expert witnessing and I have a crew that does exterior renovations and facilitates some of the repairs on homes I am called to review.

Sometimes I think I am a thorn in the side at the HBA but I do have a few that value my services and presence