Grounding Conductor?

[Mike Lamb]

What do you suppose is trying to be accomplished here? This is single phase service to a multi-unit building three flat with this one panel having four conductors coming from the meter.

I will assume it's a grounding electrode. Is it doing any harm?

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[Marc]

It's the main panel? Is there a gutter between that panel and the meter?

Marc

[Brandon Whitmore]

That looks they originally intended on using this panel as a "sub" panel, with the service equipment elsewhere. If that's the case, it's all screwed up...

[Mike Lamb]

This is the main panel unless something is hidden. No gutters.

[Marc]

Ok. I wonder if that extra conductor is being used as an electrode grounding conductor? Otherwise, if it's parallel to the neutral from the meter then it should be removed.

Marc

[kurt]

It's a hack job on multiple counts. The trimmed "grounding electrode" by itself is pathetic; one can't hack off strands. There's no grounding lock nut on the conduit. The bonding screw isn't engaged.

I'm sure there's more, but I'd hang it on that for the time being.

[Jim Port]

It's a hack job on multiple counts. The trimmed "grounding electrode" by itself is pathetic; one can't hack off strands. There's no grounding lock nut on the conduit. The bonding screw isn't engaged.

I'm sure there's more, but I'd hang it on that for the time being.

First, it would be a bonding locknut, not a grounding locknut. Secondly they are not always required.

Thirdly, the bond screw should not be engaged if this was not service equipment. I can't see if the other apartments are fed out of this panel or not. A 100 amp panel typically would not feed multiple apartments. I know the OP stated service, but I question it.

[John Kogel]

Maybe they pulled an extra conductor in there for 100 amp 3-phase and then went to single phase for unknowable reasons?

The sparky then terminated the unused conductor on the grounding bus as a way to keep it safe? WAG.

The only way to know is to have the other end of the service inspected by an electrician, IMO.

[kurt]

First, it would be a bonding locknut, not a grounding locknut. Secondly they are not always required.

Thirdly, the bond screw should not be engaged if this was not service equipment. I can't see if the other apartments are fed out of this panel or not. A 100 amp panel typically would not feed multiple apartments. I know the OP stated service, but I question it.

First, in Chicago, it's always required; we have different rules here.

Second, lots of trades call it a grounding locknut here, so I do; we have different terms here, and they can change depending on venue. I was using terms Mike may recognize because we work in the same market.

Third, we can't know more than the OP says. The bonding screw should be engaged based on what we know.

[hausdok]

I'm with Mr. Port. I think this is a dinked-up sub-panel. Did you actually see the meter array? I've had times when I found a single meter on the outside of a building containing several townhomes but only one meter. Then when I searched around, I discovered a meter array sever garages away with the individual meters and main disconnects for the various units. The meter I'd seen on the building turned out to be the one for the common-use area lighting.

Just sayin'

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Port]

Kurt, I am sorry that so few of your tradespeople know the proper terminolgy of their professions or the purpose of what they are installing. Continued mis-application does not help. The NEC also addresses the grounding and bonding differently.

Grounding and bonding serve two different purposes.

[Mike Lamb]

3 meters for 3 service panels each with separate feeds.

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[Jim Port]

Thanks for the additional pics. I am guessing the POCO allows the sockets to contain the GEC? I am looking at the 1/2 EMT as protection for this. Is that metal conduit leaving the meter sockets?

You correctly identified what you have as a service panel. With that said the bond screw should be installed. That leaves the only issue as the GEC not being properly terminated.

[kurt]

Jim, I realize and understand what you're trying to say, but it's different here and what you think doesn't mean anything to anybody. Please continue to think it's stupid because most of us in the biz think so too, but so far that hasn't had any effect on Local 134 and how they operate.

Specific to grounding and bonding, we don't do it like everyone else. Case in point, the grounding electrode is clamped to the "grounding" (bonding) locknut and then run to the water service. That's why it's often called the "grounding locknut". And, there isn't any specific requirement to bond gas lines to water pipes or anything else.

I'd also say that some of the Locals better fellows do some of the finest work on the planet, and they don't use your terminology. Go figure.

So, condescend all you want. But, it would be smarter to understand what you're trying to talk about before you speak.

[Jim Port]

Using the correct terminolgy helps with understanding and properly applying the correct code articles. Otherwise important details can be left out. I would rather show that I know the difference by using the correct terms.

On a related note, lack of use of the proper wording lets murderers walk the streets on technicalities. Tell me the wording doesn't make a difference.

I understand regional code differences, but that does not mean that the "regional slang" is correct. In your example above the locknut is not being grounded, regardless of what it is connected to. It would be a bond.

[kurt]

Well, if it wasn't clear the first couple times, let me try a third.

We don't do it like you do in your town, or anywhere else. It's the People's Republic of Chicago regarding code stuff. We have the Building Dept., DCAP, People's Gas, 5 or 6 different local unions depending on where you want to draw lines, and multiple special interests that cherry pick what codes we adopt, which we amend, and those we make up on our own.

We only have EMT and armored cable. All the service entrances are conduit. The grounding path is often, or always, the conduit. There are variations, but since you dead set on telling folks what you don't know a thing about, I'm not going to bother telling you about them.

To top if off, every suburb has it's own code. We work in an environment with over 165 different codes and AHJ's. It's complicated. And it's not necessarily regional slang; it's the terms that are used whether you think it's right or not.

It's not your language, it's ours, like it or not, and your condescendence only shows how little you know about other places. I can take you to a dozen different areas where everyone calls something different than somewhere else, and all will insist they're right. In a very big city, they are right, or as right as it needs to be if the job is getting done correctly.

And the related note of comparing murderers to ......what exactly are you comparing them to.....(?).....you're blathering nonsense.

I can only dream of working in an environment where it's all IRC and a single book......

[Speedy Petey]

Well, if it wasn't clear the first couple times, let me try a third.

We don't do it like you do in your town, or anywhere else. It's the People's Republic of Chicago regarding code stuff. We have the Building Dept., DCAP, People's Gas, 5 or 6 different local unions depending on where you want to draw lines, and multiple special interests that cherry pick what codes we adopt, which we amend, and those we make up on our own.

We only have EMT and armored cable. All the service entrances are conduit. The grounding path is often, or always, the conduit. There are variations, but since you dead set on telling folks what you don't know a thing about, I'm not going to bother telling you about them.

To top if off, every suburb has it's own code. We work in an environment with over 165 different codes and AHJ's. It's complicated. And it's not necessarily regional slang; it's the terms that are used whether you think it's right or not.

It's not your language, it's ours, like it or not, and your condescendence only shows how little you know about other places. I can take you to a dozen different areas where everyone calls something different than somewhere else, and all will insist they're right. In a very big city, they are right, or as right as it needs to be if the job is getting done correctly.

And the related note of comparing murderers to ......what exactly are you comparing them to.....(?).....you're blathering nonsense.

I can only dream of working in an environment where it's all IRC and a single book......

Kurt, you are trying to justify your situation by saying "I live in a big city. This is how things are here, so deal with it."

It is you who should accept the nationally recognized terms and technicalities. You can have all the local lingo you want, but that does not change the fact that most other places might be different. This is not to say you should try and change your area's slang, but it is to say you should NOT try and say others outside your area should embrace an incorrect term.

Also, if something is required in your area specifically I feel this should be noted. To say something is required, then to say "First, in Chicago, it's always required; we have different rules here. " is not very productive to anyone outside your area.

One should be careful when stating codes that are notionally or universally recognized.

[kurt]

I never said anyone else had to use the term. Read up.

I was talking to a guy in my area, I used a term used in my area. I could also show you guys in different parts of the city that use other terms. It's a big complicated city.

What's interesting, is the small town folks that are inscensed that we have different things here and upset I might suggest folks recognize that, well, they are all up and athunder about how we have to adopt their rules.

I wish we would, honest, but we don't.