moldclay Posted April 18, 2013 Report Posted April 18, 2013 National Mold Testing company looking for inspectors to be independent contractors in your area. We are currently looking for certified mold inspectors throughout the country to run mold inspections. There is no cost to the inspector to partner with our company. May also be able to save you money on your current lab fees and testing equipment for your own jobs. If interested comment or message me with contact information. If you are interested but not certified we can help you get there for a lot cheaper than it would be to do on your own. Thank You for Looking and have a nice day. .
Tom Raymond Posted April 18, 2013 Report Posted April 18, 2013 Clay, if you had bothered to read anything here you would realize you are barking up the wrong neurospora.
Les Posted April 18, 2013 Report Posted April 18, 2013 Tom, Please, I would like to know how to be certified!
Marc Posted April 18, 2013 Report Posted April 18, 2013 A business call yesterday asked for a 'mold inspection' to prove to the Fire Marshall that there was 'no' mold in the house. It caught fire and was fixed but the Marshall wants it confirmed 'mold free' before he'll issue a COO. I gave him the O' Handley talk, referred him to a local 'mold inspector' I know for the mold spore count but it got me thinking...why not set up myself for mold spore counts? It's just for calls like this one and to use during an HI to confirm elevated spore count when a house smells moldy but there's no growth to see. I don't see why I'd need any certification. It ain't hard to do. Just set up the machine with the air-o-cells, send it in to the lab and get the results back to the client. Easy peasy. Might be a better ROI than an IR and it'll serve the client. Marc
Mike Lamb Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 The newspapers, internet, and TV provide proof that mold will make healthy people, and worst of all, their children sick. Professional HI societies such as ASHI and NACHI encourage this with their own mold testing classes; their respected leaders misleadingly contributing news articles and other input to convince the public that mold is a real health menace. The fact conscious inspectors who disagree with all this think they can change the mold misinformation by educating their clients one at a time. This is naive and will not work. The snowball is getting bigger and bigger. The following list is from the first 3 pages of a Google search. Unless I am mistaken, NAHI is the only major HI society that doesn't offer mold testing classes. An inspector on a another forum says he tells client's his mold tests aren't likely to help them in any way but they still want it done. Take your pick and this by no means is a complete list. I may be a fool by not collecting an extra $10,000 to $20,000 a year testing for mold. PROFESSIONAL MOLD INSPECTION INSTITIUTE MOLD INSPECTION CONSULTING AND REMEDIATION ORGANIZATION NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF REMDIATORS AND MOLD INSPECTORS NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MOLD PROFESSIONALS INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CERTIFIED HOME INSPECTORS INDOOR ENVIROMENTAL TRAINING ACCREDITED DISATSTER RESTORATION CONTRACTOR ONLINE TRAINING INSTITIUTE OF INSPECTION CLEANING AND RESTORATION CERTIFICATION THE ASHI SCHOOL ENVIROMENTAL SOLUTIONS ASSOCIATION BEST TRAINING SCHOOL GREEN TRAINING MOLD SERVICES GROUP ENVIROMENTAL TECHNICAL GROUP HOME SAFE ENVIROMENTAL SOUTHEASTERN MOLD INSTITIUTE INC. Mold Test USA
kurt Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 On the plus side, all the folks on that list Lamb put up are essentially unknowns outside our very little world. Maybe the snowball is getting bigger, but I don't see it getting bigger. I see a lot of morons trying to make it bigger, but I see a lot of folks seeing the sham for what it is. I disagree that speaking truth to foolishness is naive and will not work. I recognize the historical record is mixed, but truth tends to win. It ain't a bag race we're involved in.
Stephen Lagueux Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 I just finished a wrt class which is water damage restoration technician. From what I've learned from a technical standview about water damage leading to the pr?sence of mold is quite enlightning. To further my education in that matter, I intend to get the amrt certification this coming fall (applied microbial remediation tech). Yes there are some who are taking advantage of mold fear. There is a gigantic industry behind it and it all begins with the water damage and all the business that is involved. But from what I've learned so far about the science behind the mold, it is making me change the way I see it and how I personnaly, would like to interact with it when encountered during my inspections as we all do.
kurt Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 Put up some links to the "science behind the mold". The medical and mycological professionals I talk to about this subject have a standard for how they approach the topic, and the large businesses involved in mold remediation have (so far) a different standard. I'm trying to establish a credible comparative study of the two sides.
Marc Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 Don't need any science to make a recommendation that mold growth be removed or to recommend checks on mold spore counts to first confirm it then to help locate the source of the elevated count. Just need the science to refute claims by the mold mongers that it threatens one's health. Putting things where they rightly belong. Just to clarify a little, not to dispute your stance. Correct me if I've heard you wrong. Marc
Les Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 Marc, have you ever read one of the mold spore count reports?
Marc Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 Yep. They all contained a lot more info than I thought was needed. I mostly just looked for the spore counts in each of the rooms tested as well as the control. Why do you ask? Marc
Stephen Lagueux Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 Don't need any science to make a recommendation that mold growth be removed or to recommend checks on mold spore counts to first confirm it then to help locate the source of the elevated count. Just need the science to refute claims by the mold mongers that it threatens one's health. Putting things where they rightly belong. Just to clarify a little, not to dispute your stance. Correct me if I've heard you wrong. Marc I know and I agree. With that said, once you understand the potential consequences related to mold exposure, that makes you sit back and think twice. I owe it to myself and to my clients to get the proper knowledge and formation to come with the right information (as far as I know it) as seen from the two sides. I will not take sides into one camp or the other and try to change someone else's mind so we would think alike based on my own theory of how things should be, according to what I may have read somewhere or to whom I may have talked to.
Les Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 Marc, at what level do you "panic" or tell your client to relax? What are the levels that should cause one to put on a mask or breathing appratus to occupy the given space? If there is dangerous mold in the attic (bathroom, basement, behind the fridge, etc) should you be concerned with being in the remaining area? This thread is going the direction of the inspector feeling like he/she must protect the client. I feel strongly that inspectors should inspect and report and stop thinking he/she is there for protection. just my opinion. also I feel strongly the inside outside protocol is just silly!
Tom Raymond Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 Les, it's time to panic when the sopressata is almost gone. Click to Enlarge 19.46 KB
Mike Lamb Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 I disagree that speaking truth to foolishness is naive and will not work. That is not quite what I said or meant. I do think that the ignorance is gaining at a far greater pace than the one-on-one education that a home inspector can provide. I believe that e-mails to editors and publishers of the media and Internet forums disputing untrue and exaggerated information they publish regarding mold would be far more effective. The point of me listing all these mold certification schools is to illustrate the demand for it.
Mike Lamb Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 But from what I've learned so far about the science behind the mold, it is making me change the way I see it and how I personnaly, would like to interact with it when encountered during my inspections as we all do. Stephen, you were asked about the science behind the mold. Please post some studies for us to read. The only scientific study I have seen is that high indoor mold counts will increase the risk of asthma in infants but besides that I have not seen any credible information that high mold counts are bad for healthy people. I also believe that dust mites and pets have a higher impact on childhood asthma than the mold studies.
gtblum Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 What happened to the guy who poked this hive? I want to hear the rest of the sales presentation.
Stephen Lagueux Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 Stephen, you were asked about the science behind the mold. Please post some studies for us to read. When I say science behind the mold, I'm not talking about scientific studies and I would not find anything substantial I'm afraid, that I admit. What I mean by science is how that mold came to be in the first place. That is what I think, all HI should learn and or understand. I'm not here to school anyone or to gloat but understanding the type of water damage that leads to the presence of mold is primordial in order to give a good assesment of the affected areas. mold wont be the same if the water damage that triggered its proliferation comes from cat 1 water (pipe burst) or cat 3 water (surface or sewage water). The problem is that we just don't know, most of the time, how it came to be exactly. Is one worst than the other? maybe. Most won't do no harm, some can be bad for your health. How you deal with it is your own judgment call based on what you know on the subject at that time. Understanding water intrusion in its 3 forms, categories of water and class, water diffusion and permeance is what I mean by the science behind mold.
kurt Posted April 19, 2013 Report Posted April 19, 2013 OK, that's fair. I'll listen, but what's missing from the mold guys "science" is confirmation or disputation by the medical side. Mold folks dismiss anything contradicting the truth they have established for themselves. There are those that argue the medical profession just doesn't understand. OK. The medical professionals I talk to indicate they've studied these things in great detail. One side or the other is lying or stupid; which one? There are those that indicate mold/dust/mites/etc. are the trigger of asthma and related respiratory disease/allergies. The medical professionals I talk to indicate these are just a couple of the many variables that might have an effect, with precious little to indicate what all the variables are, and with even less to indicate how those variables might effect a specific individual. The mold folks say it's science, and the medical professionals say it's a very complicated bit of genetic predisposition, wholly dependent on an individuals specific health issues, and there's little hard science to indicate reality. Who you gonna believe? In sociological terms, the mold folks have many of the characteristics of a cult; 1) Authoritarian leadership; there's usually an overbearing individual pushing their ideas to the exclusion of others. 2) Exclusivism; they alone hold the truth, no one else can be right. 3) Opposition to Independent Thinking; the thinking has already been done for the believers, no independent or peer reviewed studies can be considered that do not support what's been decided upon. There are more, but they tend toward the truly crazy (satanic punishment, fortification of borders to keep out the unbelievers, fear of excommunication), which I don't think mold folks are. Medical professionals, OTOH, have large meetings where peers review research and participants are encouraged to critique and counter research findings. There is no opposition to independent thinking; the idea is gathering independent thinkers and gleaning the truth from many ideas. Medical professional convention is, more or less, the opposite of a cult. (full disclosure, I have my issues with the medical profession and it's many problems, but how they approach this topic isn't one of them.) So, lacking credible peer reviewed studies from a small group of true believers creating "science" unknown to large research institutions, leaves me, at best, skeptical. Factor in my personal analytical method of "following the money", and I can't help but shake my head at the "science" behind mold. Breaking it down even further..... Do folks have to have "science" to know nasty mold and raw sewage are dangerous, and different from just a little water and mold? Does one need to attend seminars and join a group to know raw sewage is bad, and that they should alter their behaviors when confronted with it? Stephen, you seem like a pretty good head, but "science behind the mold" used to be called "common sense", and no one had to have a seminar or earn a dime disseminating the information.
Marc Posted April 20, 2013 Report Posted April 20, 2013 Marc, at what level do you "panic" or tell your client to relax? What are the levels that should cause one to put on a mask or breathing appratus to occupy the given space? If there is dangerous mold in the attic (bathroom, basement, behind the fridge, etc) should you be concerned with being in the remaining area? This thread is going the direction of the inspector feeling like he/she must protect the client. I feel strongly that inspectors should inspect and report and stop thinking he/she is there for protection. just my opinion. also I feel strongly the inside outside protocol is just silly! I'm not suggesting one should panic at some particular point about mold. Just that mold is something that's alive and keeps growing, spewing out more and more reproductive spores into the air that occupants breathe in. Within the confines of a house it tends to build up. At some point you can smell it. It should be removed if visible or if you can only smell it then go find it and get it out of the house. Why? Not because it's a danger but because it's common sense. It belongs outside. I don't get your point about inspectors not being there to protect the client but that sounds like another thread. Marc
hausdok Posted April 20, 2013 Report Posted April 20, 2013 Marc, The spore count that might trigger a reaction in an adult might not even trigger a reaction in a two day old infant or vice versa because everyone reacts differently to mold; that's why the scientists can't identify a trigger threshold and why spore counts are useless. The percentage of those affected by mold is minuscule compared with the overall population. If you use those percentages to establish how 'toxic' it is, peanuts or bee stings are probably more 'toxic' than mold. You'll get absolutely no useful information from spore counts. What makes you think that mold belongs outside. It's everywhere, it's always been everywhere and it is always going to be everywhere. The idea that you can completely eliminate indoor mold is nuts. It can't be done. They claim that one mold spore is about 1/10,000 the diameter of a human hair. If mold has built up to the point where it can be seen and smelled, mold is not the problem, excess moisture causing an explosive overgrowth of the ambient mold already there is the problem. Every time I've seen it I can point to a direct cause - flooded crawlspace caused by lousy exterior drainage or downspouts emptying too close to the home or clogged downspouts causing gutters to overflow next to the foundation; poor ventilation in attics caused by improperly installed/configured insulation, poor vent configuration or insufficient ventilation or massive moisture in the interior rising up into the attic through air passages; leaking plumbing fixtures; insufficient use of ventilation fans; etc. I'd say that at least 90% of the time the mold is a self-inflicted wound caused by something the owners do or fail to do. You can have a house be free of mold 'problems' for forty years and then the home can change hands and within weeks a new owner might create the conditions that lead to massive overgrowth and then they almost always want to blame someone else for the presence of the stuff when it was there all along and it is something that they've done to cause its growth to explode. Find and fix the moisture issues, clean the place up, go on with your life. It's as simple as that. You don't need moon suits. You don't need HEPA vacs. What's needed is dry heat to dry the place out after the cause of the moisture is eliminated and then plain old elbow grease and some soap and water. Mold is not "toxic." Persons exaggerating minor ailments that affect only a tiny percentage of the population in order to scare folks into putting money into their pockets are toxic. If this were a monarchy and I were the king with absolute power the dungeons would be bursting at the seams with mold-is-golders all awaiting the guillotine as payment for their crimes.. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike
Marc Posted April 20, 2013 Report Posted April 20, 2013 Does this mean that if you see mold growth the size of a dinner plate in a house you might comment on the moisture source, etc but there's no suggestion in your report to remove it? Marc
kurt Posted April 20, 2013 Report Posted April 20, 2013 Let's broaden the question. What and how do folks report mold, sans the moisture component?
hausdok Posted April 20, 2013 Report Posted April 20, 2013 Does this mean that if you see mold growth the size of a dinner plate in a house you might comment on the moisture source, etc but there's no suggestion in your report to remove it? Marc No, of course I say to get rid of it, I just don't start wringing my hands and fall to my knees and go, "Oh my God, you've got toxic mold. We're all gonna die!" If I can see what's caused the moisture issue, I say something like, "That stuff looks like mold. It looks like such and such has caused a massive overgrowth of the ambient mold in the home. Get a (appropriate pro) to confirm that's where the moisture is coming from and then fix the such and such and clean up the mold. If you want to know how to clean it up, there are instructions on the EPA's website at EPA.gov". If I can't immediately determine what I think is causing it, I say something like, "That stuff looks like mold. Something has caused the (whatever) to get wet and that's caused the mold spore already in the house to grow out of control. Have a (appropriate pro) help you determine where that excess moisture is coming from and then fix it. Then clean up the mold. If you want to know how to clean it up, there are instructions on the EPA's website at EPA.gov". If they ask me if I think they need a follow up inspection and testing, I tell 'em, "If you want to have a mold professional check this stuff out to provide you a more qualified opinion of what to do about it, that's your right, but if you decide to do that make sure you hire a real scientist, not some home inspector that does "mold inspections" (air quotes) on the side. Hiring one of us to help you deal with a mold issue is like throwing money away. If you really want to throw $300 away, just put it through your shredder - don't give it to a home inspector that does so-called "mold inspections". All any home inspector is going to do for you is come in here and take air samples, send them to the lab, and then tell you what you already know - that there is mold spore in the air of the home. Then he'll refer you off to an abatement firm that's probably giving him a commission for every referral. Sure, he or she will provide you a report with a lot of numbers that indicate spore counts; and it will look very impressive, but you should know that the CDC, EPA and other real medical and science professionals say that since there is no known threshold for what constitutes a dangerous level of mold - it affects everyone differently - those reports are essentially useless. Again, if you feel you have to hire a "mold pro" in order to feel comfortable about whatever you do about this stuff, hire a real scientiest working for a reputable environmental testing firm - there are several in the Puget Sound region with their own degreed scientists on staff - don't hire one of me." ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike
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