Code speak

[Robert Jones]

Home owner installed a gas log unit into his wood burning fireplace. The issue I see is that to turn the gas on, one has to go to the garage, open the valve, the go back to the fireplace to physically ignite the log set.

My question, besides common sense and having a gas key near the fireplace, is there a specific code that requires it?

[Richard Moore]

Are you saying the only on/off control is in the garage and it's otherwise just a match lit perforated pipe? I would think explosions supersede any code! At the least, my bet is the owner has no eyebrows.

[Robert Jones]

Pretty sure it had the usual control knob at the log set;)

[kurt]

If it's got a shut off in the same room as the appliance, it's OK. At least, it would be in Chicago.

It actually sounds fine. A primary shutoff in the garage and the appliance shut off in the same room as the appliance. If there was no primary shut off to allow disconnection of the gas log, then I'd say it was wrong.

[Robert Jones]

Ok, just got some clarification that the only valve is in the garage, where the home owner tapped into the gas line. Ran a separate gas line to the log unit. In order to turn the fireplace on, one goes to the valve and the other sits at the fireplace to ignite it![:-censore

[Hearthman]

If this is a listed gas logset then according to the 2009 IRC all you need is an approved shutoff that is:

-readily accessible

-serves only that one appliance

-is labeled

if it is a log lighter, you would need a key valve within 6 ft of the fireplace to operate the log lighter and a separate shutoff as above.

[Richard Moore]

Pretty sure it had the usual control knob at the log set;)

OK. You made it sound like he always had to go out to the garage first.

So, you have a dedicated(?) equipment shut-off in the garage. I believe an accessible, remote location is allowed for a decorative vented appliance like log-sets. Not sure there is anything wrong with your set-up.

-------------

LOL...just read your new post.

Ok, just got some clarification that the only valve is in the garage, where the home owner tapped into the gas line. Ran a separate gas line to the log unit. In order to turn the fireplace on, one goes to the valve and the other sits at the fireplace to ignite it!

That's FUBAR and stupid. Do you really need a code quote?

[Robert Jones]

Uh no. No need for a code quote. Here is what I put;

"The home owner has added a gas log unit to the fireplace. It appears that a valve in the garage would have to be opened and then the fireplace lit in the fire box. This is a big safety concern in my opinion. A small delay in the ignition of the log set could allow gas vapors to enter the room and possibly ignite with the ignition source. With the installation of a gas log unit, a primary shutoff AND an appliance shut off in the same room is required. Have a qualified plumbing or small appliance contractor make the needed repairs. I don't recommend using the gas log fireplace as installed."

[hausdok]

It is FUBAR. If the gas valve fails he has to leave the room to turn off the gas? If there's no code against it one can at least say that it fails the common sense test.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Robert Jones]

I should clarify that I had zero chance to see the actual set up as the seller left me zero sight clearance to the fireplace. The set up was being explained to me by the buyer who had it explained to him by the seller! I had to call him back for better clarification. And that's when he told me about the two person fireplace ignition set up.

[kurt]

Woof. fubar.

I've been writing the "shutoff in the same room as the appliance" for so long, I don't even know where it came from.

Isn't it in the NFGC?

[Richard Moore]

I only have the Seattle 2009 version of the IRC handy, but I don't think it's much different from the national codes. Anyway, G2420.5.2 would seem to indicate that the appliance shut-off valve can be elsewhere. Not saying it's a good idea, but....?

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[Hearthman]

Vented logs must be listed to either ANSI Z21.84 or Z21.60. Either type can be left 'off' at the appliance and a remote shutoff as I described used seasonally. If there is no control valve on the burner itself and it is merely a burner connected to the gas supply then this is not allowed by the IRC.

Most all such questions can be answered when you provide the make and model of the appliance in question. If there is no rating plate, you already have your answer-recommend removal.

Refer to IRC R2420.5.2 for the remote shutoff allowance for fireplaces only. All other appliances must have an approved shutoff within 6ft in same room with "access".

[John Kogel]

Bad enough to install it for himself and his own family, but for him to sell the place with that setup, that is ignorant and criminal, IMO. Unbelievable.

Wilma, is it lit yet? Wilma, put down the phone and go light the gas like I asked you to.

Has it ever been serviced by a gas heating contractor? Of course it has not.

[kurt]

I only have the Seattle 2009 version of the IRC handy, but I don't think it's much different from the national codes. Anyway, G2420.5.2 would seem to indicate that the appliance shut-off valve can be elsewhere. Not saying it's a good idea, but....?

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61.76?KB

Strange. I'm sticking with 5.1.

[Hearthman]

A shutoff valve is NOT an emergency shutoff---it is for service. Each appliance must have its own separate control, whether a manual control similar to a range top, millivolt valve with a standing pilot or electronic ignition. Being in the hearth industry, I don't see why all the paranoia as long as their is an appliance valve attached directly to the burner. Would I prefer a key valve next to the fireplace or an approved shutoff inside the fireplace? Sure, the code allows it to be remote. Check local codes, too.

[mjr6550]

A believe that many years ago the National Fuel Gas Code stated that the shut-off valve had to be within 6 feet of an appliance, but did not mention being in the same room. The IRC says it must be in the same room, but there seems to be an exception for gas fireplace logs. The IRC states the valve can be in a remote location if it is accessible.

I don't understand the OPs concern about lighting the log. I'm assuming we are talking about a gas log and not a fire starter. I've never seen a modern gas log that does not have a built-in control valve. As to the zero sight clearance, if at all possible to move things to do a proper inspection. If you can't see it then you can't inspect it.

[Richard Moore]

...........

I don't understand the OPs concern about lighting the log. I'm assuming we are talking about a gas log and not a fire starter. I've never seen a modern gas log that does not have a built-in control valve.

.......

See post #5

[Robert Jones]

"As to the zero sight clearance, if at all possible to move things to do a proper inspection. If you can't see it then you can't inspect it."

Had it been simply a chair or maybe even a couple of boxes, I would have done just that. Unfortunately, the family room was stacked with boxes and other furniture as the home owners were in the process of vacating the home.