Mike Lamb Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 I assume this pipe is lead. I did not scratch at it. Is there some mandate or regulation prohibiting lead water pipes in households? Nearly all of the service pipes for Chicago water are lead. Click to Enlarge 43.98 KB
Les Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Hey Mike, go here http://www.lbwl.com/Search.aspx?searchtext=lead pipe&LangType=1033 this is my favorite site to recommend for local folks regarding lead water pipe. Cruise around the site and I think most of it is relevant to Chicagoland. Lansing has been really proactive to reduce exposures.
Jerry Simon Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 I assume this pipe is lead. I did not scratch at it. Is there some mandate or regulation prohibiting lead water pipes in households? Nearly all of the service pipes for Chicago water are lead. Click to Enlarge 43.98?KB Chicago banned 'em in 1986.
Tom Raymond Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 If the supply is lead what purpose is served by banning/replacing that little bit of distribution pipe? The exposure reduction is minuscule.
Jerry Simon Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 If the supply is lead what purpose is served by banning/replacing that little bit of distribution pipe? The exposure reduction is minuscule. I wasn't clear; lead mains were banned. Lead distribution pipes; never seen even one in 20 years around here; 99.99% are galvanized iron and copper (and some CPVC, but even that is rare unless you get out in the boonies). Some old waste lines were lead. Mike, one point you may know; Evergreen Park introduces a chemical - or some sort of thingy - into their water supply which in theory coats the interior of their lead mains, and prevents the lead from leaching into the water.
Mike Lamb Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Posted January 16, 2013 If the supply is lead what purpose is served by banning/replacing that little bit of distribution pipe? The exposure reduction is minuscule. I wasn't clear; lead mains were banned. Lead distribution pipes; never seen even one in 20 years around here; 99.99% are galvanized iron and copper (and some CPVC, but even that is rare unless you get out in the boonies). Some old waste lines were lead. Mike, one point you may know; Evergreen Park introduces a chemical - or some sort of thingy - into their water supply which in theory coats the interior of their lead mains, and prevents the lead from leaching into the water. I did not know that about Evergreen's water. Here is an article from the Chicago Tribune 1986. Chicago decided to ban the use of lead pipe about 10 years after the rest of the cities in the United States did, and the Chicago plumbing union was still fighting it. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986 ... r-fittings
Tom Raymond Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 If the supply is lead what purpose is served by banning/replacing that little bit of distribution pipe? The exposure reduction is minuscule. I wasn't clear; lead mains were banned. Lead distribution pipes; never seen even one in 20 years around here; 99.99% are galvanized iron and copper (and some CPVC, but even that is rare unless you get out in the boonies). Some old waste lines were lead. That makes sense. Sunday's house had some lead waste lines. Mike, one point you may know; Evergreen Park introduces a chemical - or some sort of thingy - into their water supply which in theory coats the interior of their lead mains, and prevents the lead from leaching into the water. And presumably their customers...
ghentjr Posted January 16, 2013 Report Posted January 16, 2013 Mike, one point you may know; Evergreen Park introduces a chemical - or some sort of thingy - into their water supply which in theory coats the interior of their lead mains, and prevents the lead from leaching into the water. In CT the local water company insists that all you need is to run the water for a few seconds before you drink and there will be no lead. And, they are probably correct.
Jerry Simon Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Mike, one point you may know; Evergreen Park introduces a chemical - or some sort of thingy - into their water supply which in theory coats the interior of their lead mains, and prevents the lead from leaching into the water. In CT the local water company insists that all you need is to run the water for a few seconds before you drink and there will be no lead. And, they are probably correct. Evergreen Park people are stupid, so. . . Actually, I heard they worried about toddlers getting up in the middle of the night for a drinkie of wa wa.
Mike Lamb Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Posted January 17, 2013 Mike, one point you may know; Evergreen Park introduces a chemical - or some sort of thingy - into their water supply which in theory coats the interior of their lead mains, and prevents the lead from leaching into the water. In CT the local water company insists that all you need is to run the water for a few seconds before you drink and there will be no lead. And, they are probably correct. Evergreen Park people are stupid, so. . . Actually, I heard they worried about toddlers getting up in the middle of the night for a drinkie of wa wa. Ted Kaczynski, "The Unabomber," is stupid? Wait... I'll have to come up with a better example. It's probably the water.
kurt Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 I recall several years ago, when I was getting a lead inspector license, the teacher ran us all through the usual stuff, EPA, CDC, etc. Between class sections, he allowed as to how it was almost impossible to drink enough water to get an elevated blood lead, but it's best to just follow EPA since they're the one's issuing licenses. Anyone else heard that? IOW, just how dangerous is it in water? Inasmuch as muni water has mountains of water treatment chemicals in it, what's worse? Since Chicago is about 95% lead water service, wouldn't we know if lead in water was a problem? All the elevated blood lead cases I know about all came from kids playing in dirt next to old houses, not water. I know the dirt around my house was loaded with it until I scraped and got rid of it.
Les Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Kurt, I agree and I must have had the same instructor for lead training! I think it was Moses's brother. Sorry, I had to get that remark in before Scott Patterson did. Did you ever check the vegetables that you grew in the lead tainted soil? I have become a believer in lead control and abatement. Recent class I took for my contractors license was really quite good and espoused common sense approach rather than $10,000 radiometers.(XRF Devices not radiometers. please see Marcs post following) As a pipefitter I had to burn lead and do 3-4perfect lead and oakum joints and swage a steel supply line to lead. I believe lead (and mold) is one of the few things that homeowners can control.
Marc Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Curious...what does a radiometer have to do with lead? Marc
John Kogel Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Curious...what does a radiometer have to do with lead? Marc Marc. if your water is radioactive, you can use the radiometer to not find lead pipes. []
Les Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 John, you are making my attempt at sarcastic comedy worst! Marc, I will change the post to XRF device. I now realize it was not a good reference and apologize.
allseason Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 I recall several years ago, when I was getting a lead inspector license, the teacher ran us all through the usual stuff, EPA, CDC, etc. Between class sections, he allowed as to how it was almost impossible to drink enough water to get an elevated blood lead, but it's best to just follow EPA since they're the one's issuing licenses. Anyone else heard that? IOW, just how dangerous is it in water? Inasmuch as muni water has mountains of water treatment chemicals in it, what's worse? Since Chicago is about 95% lead water service, wouldn't we know if lead in water was a problem? All the elevated blood lead cases I know about all came from kids playing in dirt next to old houses, not water. I know the dirt around my house was loaded with it until I scraped and got rid of it. From what I've heard there are and or were very few if any cases of lead poisoning from water lines. I heard it from an old school plumber that the Copper lobby some several decades ago was all about the bad news on lead in order to promote the installation of said copper. Most of the lead in humans comes from eating paint chips, etc. A lot of the lead in soil comes from pre unleaded gasoline, the lead particles from emmisions would settle on the soil.
Tom Raymond Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Most of the lead in humans comes from eating paint chips Nearly all of the lead in humans is ingested, almost none of it comes from chewing on window sills. Lead safety is about good housekeeping. Regularly cleaning surfaces, washing kids hands and toys, and maintaining painted surfaces in good condition will virtually eliminate exposure, even in buildings that are literally dripping in lead. I have two kids 9 years apart; the oldest had a BLL of 29 at his first birthday, the youngest's was 6, and the original floors in my 1870 house still have almost 50 micrograms/square centimeter of lead in them. The only difference is a quasi-weekly cleaning with a HEPA vac.
ericwlewis Posted January 18, 2013 Report Posted January 18, 2013 don't forget about the lead in Fiestaware and off brand stoneware. We had a bunch of our dishes tested and had to get rid of most of them because of lead content. We think they may have had a lot to do with our now 22 year old daughters stomach and learning disorders Our son wasn't affected because he didn't eat knife and fork food until recently because he was VERY finicky.
Bill Kibbel Posted January 18, 2013 Report Posted January 18, 2013 don't forget about the lead in Fiestaware and off brand stoneware. We had a bunch of our dishes tested and had to get rid of most of them because of lead content. We think they may have had a lot to do with our now 22 year old daughters stomach and learning disorders Our son wasn't affected because he didn't eat knife and fork food until recently because he was VERY finicky. Lead as a pigment in ceramics was very common. It has never been proven that fully vitrified, domestic tableware containing lead significantly increases lead levels in people. For a source of lead poisoning, the glaze would have to be just about gone and acidic foods in contact with the unglazed surface for decades. It's funny that no one brings up the uranium oxide in the glaze of vintage Fiestaware and other ceramics.
kurt Posted January 18, 2013 Report Posted January 18, 2013 Kurt, Did you ever check the vegetables that you grew in the lead tainted soil? Yep. Lead tomatoes. That's why I scraped and brought in new soil. I completely agree about control and abatement; it's one of the easier things to control. I was in no way minimizing the concern level. I live in lead central. Lead water mains, old house all lead paint exteriors, etc. 22 kids on the block, only one elevated blood lead in 20+ years, and that from some morons disk grinding the paint off an old victorian and leaving the paint in the dirt. The kid played in the dirt, pulled a 400 ppm. Kelation got him back in health, no apparent problems. So, I think reasonable, simple, prudent precautions are extremely effective at keeping it all good.
hausdok Posted January 18, 2013 Report Posted January 18, 2013 Kurt, Did you ever check the vegetables that you grew in the lead tainted soil? Yep. Lead tomatoes. That's why I scraped and brought in new soil. Well, yeah, tomato plants have a high phosphate content. So don't sunflowers. Lead is attracted to phospates. Planting tomatoes or sunflowers around a house for a few years can completely decontaminate the soil. Throw away the harvest but let it continue for a few years and you end up with clean soil. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike
kurt Posted January 18, 2013 Report Posted January 18, 2013 The only difference is a quasi-weekly cleaning with a HEPA vac. Just curious..... Have you ever "encapsulated" the floor with additional finish, or does it work it's way up through cracks and seams regardless?
Tom Raymond Posted January 19, 2013 Report Posted January 19, 2013 There is still paint between the boards, and even though the floors had been refinished the XRF still found lead. Lots of it. Same is true for all the refinished surfaces.
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