House Remodel from 1899

[JBarbis]

hi am new any wanted to see some thoughts.

In the process of a major remodeling/addition to existing house. House was built in 1899 and the garage addition was built in 1960. Garage addition was built built basically to code (footings, 16" OC etc). Old portion of house apparently had no code. Exiting masonary walls are 6" wide and all framing was 24" OC. We ripped down the top framing as it was just pointless to keep. Mason laid the forms and had the inspector come out before pouring the footing. Major problem. Existing foundation has no footing apparently. Nice big dent. i know have a revise/amend i need to have the architect do. Any thoughts on how screwed i am?

http://s211.beta.photobucket.com/user/e ... mail_share

[John Kogel]

Explanations are required. []

You tore down the 1899 part? You started to build forms for the rebuilding of same?

Now you find out you need approved plans?

You can draw up plans as much as possible yourself, but you need to find an architect to finish them and sign them.

You could have renovated the old place forever, but now that it is gone, there is no turning back. Sorry about that.

[Marc]

No. I don't know how screwed you are. Only an inspector onsite can do that right and proper. You should get some technical representation onsite to look things over and give you a summary of conditions as well as some sense of direction on where and how to proceed. This is just an internet forum.

If you can't do that then take some photos and post them here. Take both establishing shots and close-ups. We can only see what the camera sees.

Maybe member John Ghent will chime in later and offer to cross Long Island Sound and see to your needs. []

Marc

[hausdok]

Hi,

So it looks like your plan is to widen the long axis of the house and bring it even with the back of the newer portion. Correct?

If there aren't any footings under the foundation remaining from the older part of the house you can add them now or you can have pin-pilings added to support those older walls. Have you talked to the municipal inspector to see what he'll accept? Have you spoken to an engineer?

The cost for having pin piles installed is all over the map and depends on what the market will bear in your area. A good engineer that deals with residential construction issues like this in your area will have a good idea of what it will cost to have that done.

You can always add footings the old fashioned way; bust out the floor of that old basement, excavate beneath the wall and add them in 4 foot sections. Dig out a six foot trench under the wall, lay in rebar, pour your concrete in the middle four feet leaving the rebar extended from the pour a foot on each end, skip six feet of wall and do it again, and again, and again until you've gone all the way around. Once you've gone all the way around, give it a month to cure and then start over, excavating the remaining areas and tying the new rebar into that placed in the previous pours. Very labor intensive, very dirty, very time consuming but might be cheaper than what it will cost to have the entire thing pin-piled.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Katen]

hi am new any wanted to see some thoughts.

In the process of a major remodeling/addition to existing house. House was built in 1899 and the garage addition was built in 1960. Garage addition was built built basically to code (footings, 16" OC etc). Old portion of house apparently had no code.

Of course not. This should be no surprise to anyone.

Exiting masonary walls are 6" wide and all framing was 24" OC. We ripped down the top framing as it was just pointless to keep. Mason laid the forms and had the inspector come out before pouring the footing. Major problem. Existing foundation has no footing apparently.

Of course not. This shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone. At the time the house was built, spread footings were not standard. I grew up in New England. Spread footings were the exception in the 1800s and early 1900s. Any experienced local designer or builder should have known this. The walls would have been fine to go on carrying their existing load, but you can't impose new loads on them. Did you think you could remove the wood framing and build a new house on top of an obsolete foundation like that? Really?

Nice big dent. i know have a revise/amend i need to have the architect do. Any thoughts on how screwed i am?

http://s211.beta.photobucket.com/user/e ... mail_share

At this point, just scrape the site clean and start over. It'll be quicker and cheaper that anything else. What you've got left in the pictures isn't worth preserving from a historical perspective and from a financial perspective, it'll be better to just demo it.

[Jim Katen]

The formwork in the last few shots looks terrible, by the way. Who puts stakes on the *inside* of their footing forms?

And why is the soil below the forms so fluffy? These were scraped down to undisturbed soil, right? Cause if they weren't, you're going to be in for a world of trouble.

[Bill Kibbel]

That ain't no "remodel". Looks like first time amateurs performing the work and inexperience or absolutely no planning before deciding to do the work.

[JBarbis]

No. I don't know how screwed you are. Only an inspector onsite can do that right and proper. You should get some technical representation onsite to look things over and give you a summary of conditions as well as some sense of direction on where and how to proceed. This is just an internet forum.

If you can't do that then take some photos and post them here. Take both establishing shots and close-ups. We can only see what the camera sees.

Maybe member John Ghent will chime in later and offer to cross Long Island Sound and see to your needs. []

Marc

Marc,

Plans were approved by the town. House was being rebuilt to code. Im waiting to here back from the GC and Inspector on this. Then i have to contact the architect. I like to get a few people thoughts before jumping into anything.

I'm leaning towards just adding an additional steel beam to support the new loads at the front of the house if i have issue of the existing front wall not having a footing.

What thru me for a curve ball was the inspector paper saying rear foundation wall has no footings. "Not approved" However about 95% of the rear wall is no longer load bearing because of the steel. I was actually told i could rip down basically that whole wall.

Plans

http://s211.beta.photobucket.com/user/e ... ed%20Plans

[JBarbis]

Hi,

So it looks like your plan is to widen the long axis of the house and bring it even with the back of the newer portion. Correct?

Negative. Bringing the house as far back as im allowed with the setback. If i was able to go farther back i would.

If there aren't any footings under the foundation remaining from the older part of the house you can add them now or you can have pin-pilings added to support those older walls. Have you talked to the municipal inspector to see what he'll accept? Have you spoken to an engineer?

Im actually waiting to speak with the GC, Architect and inspector on this. This is most likley what will happen or another steel beam will be added.

The cost for having pin piles installed is all over the map and depends on what the market will bear in your area. A good engineer that deals with residential construction issues like this in your area will have a good idea of what it will cost to have that done.

$5200 for the 40' of the current steel beam supplied and installed. Might have to bite another one of those bullets.

[JBarbis]

hi am new any wanted to see some thoughts.

In the process of a major remodeling/addition to existing house. House was built in 1899 and the garage addition was built in 1960. Garage addition was built built basically to code (footings, 16" OC etc). Old portion of house apparently had no code.

Of course not. This should be no surprise to anyone.

Exiting masonary walls are 6" wide and all framing was 24" OC. We ripped down the top framing as it was just pointless to keep. Mason laid the forms and had the inspector come out before pouring the footing. Major problem. Existing foundation has no footing apparently.

Of course not. This shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone. At the time the house was built, spread footings were not standard. I grew up in New England. Spread footings were the exception in the 1800s and early 1900s. Any experienced local designer or builder should have known this. The walls would have been fine to go on carrying their existing load, but you can't impose new loads on them. Did you think you could remove the wood framing and build a new house on top of an obsolete foundation like that? Really?

Nice big dent. i know have a revise/amend i need to have the architect do. Any thoughts on how screwed i am?

http://s211.beta.photobucket.com/user/e ... mail_share

At this point, just scrape the site clean and start over. It'll be quicker and cheaper that anything else. What you've got left in the pictures isn't worth preserving from a historical perspective and from a financial perspective, it'll be better to just demo it.

I would tend to agree with you. However the existing house is grandfathered. So if i tore it completely down i would be forced to suck the house back into the new limits. Basically loose 80% of the storage room (144sqft) and loose 3'+ on the side of the house. (top and bottom floors, plus attic space. roughly 150-160sqft). Not exactly something i want to do. Id rather add steel beams or add footings.

Ill post more pictures shortly. I'm constantly taking pictures for documentation and later reference

[JBarbis]

The formwork in the last few shots looks terrible, by the way. Who puts stakes on the *inside* of their footing forms?

The mason.

And why is the soil below the forms so fluffy? These were scraped down to undisturbed soil, right? Cause if they weren't, you're going to be in for a world of trouble.

All freshly dog out. Inspector didn't say anything about that.

[Scottpat]

I have to agree with Jim, it will be better and most likely cheaper to demo to the ground and start from scratch. A good example is an inspection I have scheduled later today; I have been hired to document and help discover the problems in a home that has had 4 major redo's over the past 140+ years.

They built a "newer" home around the original log home that was dated back to 1870. Then somewhere in the 1950's they built a third addition around the first and second addition. Fast forward to 2010 when they tried to remodel the entire structure and now after the new owners have moved in they are having major foundation/structural and electrical problems after being in the home for only 3 months.

What's that old saying.... You need to build on a strong foundation!