You know something. Do they?

[inspector57]

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Not an ethical question but kind of fits the discussion.

I came across this bullet in the roof which obviously came from inside the home. I reported it as a bullet hole in the roof that needed to be repaired.

I never did find the origin of the shot. This is one of those that would not have been visible from the ground or ladder. Glad I walk all roofs possible.

[islander238]

I sort of see this as a "do-unto-others" kinda thing. Perhaps the buyers are from out of town (or state, OR country) and don't know. Would I want to know about an issue such as the one Bill proposed? One that could potentially cause me difficulty to resell my property? You bet I would. I don't think an ethics issue like this would go in my report, sort of outside the scope of the inspection. I would make an advisement, though.

I would very carefully but tastefully do what I could to make my clients aware of the recent history and then stand by my word should any chips fall. After all, in Minnesota a seller would have to disclose relevant history such as this, so the bug is on them. If I have my facts straight, I have nothing to worry about. If a Realtor got mad, I would point out their responsibility concerning disclosure issues. If they didn't use me again, good, I don't want associate with someone who does business like that. I am more concerned about doing a good job and subsequently getting quality referrals from satisfied clients than you-know-who. Again, I would want to know.

After all, if the price is right, anything can be sold. Maybe my client uses the information and renegotiates the price. Serves someone right for trying to pull a fast one.

[Stephen D. Gazo]

Inspected a home last year that was the site of a marital separation gone sour...hubby hooked up the cars exhaust...you get it...so

My clients and I are in the garage, I see French louvred doors, open them to find the AhU is getting the fresh air from the garage, into the home. 2 large car garage.

I look at them after starting my worst case scenario, to see them with ashen faces and stunned looks.......ok I rewind what I just said....garage...exhaust, potential for....it turns out the realtor did inform them that the husband committed sideways, in the garage......all that aside, the clients purchased the home...didn't care what had happened....wonder how they woulda felt if they didn't know

[Jim Katen]

I don't know why this conversation led me here, but, just for fun, here's a poem by one of my favorite poets, Walter Hard, a fifth generation Vermonter who wrote poems about the people in his village of Manchester, near where I lived for a time.

She Hung on Her Words

In spite of the fact that most people

Felt the loss of him to be an addition to the place

When Hen Dilt was found --

A piece of permanently suspended animation

In the attic of the old Dilt house --

Not a hint of anything but real symptahy

Came to the long-suffering sister with whom he had lived.

Never in the long years of making excuses for Hen

Did Lettie ever drop one word of criticism.

He had been left to her care by an overindulgent mother

Who had spoiled him from the day he was born.

Probably many of the neighbors

Felt that this final act was the most worthwhile thing

Hen had ever undertaken.

All of the neighbors had been in to see Lettie

and many had been interested in a glimpse at Hen.

Curious crowds had stood around looking at the house,

And the attendance at the funeral

Would have honored the most influential citizen.

Luaella Pease had not been over to visit with Lettie

Although she had left some baked beans at the back door.

After the excitement had somwehat died down

Luella told her mother she was going over to see Lettie.

Her mother, knowing her happy faculty

For putting her foot in it,

Warned her to be careful about what she said,

And by no means to mention anything that would in any way

Bring Hen's manner of taking-off to mind.

Luella seemed shocked that her mother should mention such a thing.

Arriving at the house, Luella started with the weather.

She said she was always glad to have it pleasant on Monday.

"I alway say to Ma I'm glad if it's pleasant on Monday

On account of if it rains all the washings that don't dry."

Lettie agreed and remarked that Luella and her mother

Had a nice porch to use in case it rained.

"Yes" Luella said, "that's a fact, and your porch is too narrow."

Thinking that might seem critical, she hastened to add:

"But of course you've got a nice attic

To hang things in."

[hausdok]

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Not an ethical question but kind of fits the discussion.

I came across this bullet in the roof which obviously came from inside the home. I reported it as a bullet hole in the roof that needed to be repaired.

I never did find the origin of the shot. This is one of those that would not have been visible from the ground or ladder. Glad I walk all roofs possible.

Yeah,

I had one of those on a house down in the central district. Except that bullet had impacted the roof from the sky and a little bit of the butt end of the slug was sticking out of a shingle.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Morrison]

A while back I did an inspection for a single mom in the next small town over from mine. I didn't recognize the address, but as soon as I showed up, I knew the house. Less than a year earlier, the owner's ex-husband walked into the house with a shotgun, hurried past his young daughters straight up into the master bedroom where he shot his ex-wife while she was on the telephone. A few minutes later, he turned the gun on himself in the basement.

When my client showed up, we chatted for a few minutes and I asked her if she knew about it. Turned out, no one had told her. We continued with the inspection and I don't know if she ever bought it or not.

I tell clients every last material thing I know about a house. It may not all be explicitly stated in your state SOP, but it's what they expect.

[Garet]

I use the "Mom" test. If my mother were buying the place, what would I tell her? It's no different for anyone else.

[Garet]

I use the "Mom" test. What would I tell my mother if she were buying the place? Why would it be different for anyone else?

[Les]

Ok Bill, what are YOU thinking?

[inspector57]

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88.45?KB

Not an ethical question but kind of fits the discussion.

I came across this bullet in the roof which obviously came from inside the home. I reported it as a bullet hole in the roof that needed to be repaired.

I never did find the origin of the shot. This is one of those that would not have been visible from the ground or ladder. Glad I walk all roofs possible.

Yeah,

I had one of those on a house down in the central district. Except that bullet had impacted the roof from the sky and a little bit of the butt end of the slug was sticking out of a shingle.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

.

I get bullets in the roof in certain parts of town (the part of town that I wish I had a concealed carry permit) on a pretty regular basis.

This one obviously came from inside though. The seller was just leaving when I handed him the slug... boy was he pissed... teenage sons... WTF?

I was just surprised the slug was still in the hole even though it penetrated the OSB and blew the shingles upward.

[Bill Kibbel]

No, I'm not into reporting poltergeists or other paranormal revelations.

I don't think that this is about disclosing supernatural occurrences. I would gladly discuss my experiences with haunted house disclosure and a legal action in another thread.

Obviously, the bastard had it coming.

That's how the defense attorney tried to paint it. The jury didn't buy into it.

I don't get the hysteria over the event in the OP. Lot's of brutal things happen in houses, especially the comparatively ancient ones that Kibble inspects. Births, deaths, plagues, battery, and even the occasional murder. My house was owned by the same family for 111 years, I am fairly certain most of the items on my list occurred there.

This house is <30 years and the event occurred just about 2 years ago with the conviction earlier this year.

No. Because there isn't a chance in hell they didn't already know about something that big.

I did not see a house number in any of the media reports, only the road name. Roads here can span several townships. This is a really rural wooded area where many homes aren't visible from the road. I know which house because I live less than 2 miles and I passed it while there was activity there.

Also, a majority of my residential clients are coming here from the 2 nearest and largest cities and likely have not paid much attention to the reports. There's enough murders every night on their news.

The OP presented a certain scenario and asked what each of us would do. ... Rather, I have merely indicated what I would do and the reasoning thereof.

Precisely what I was hoping to see in this discussion.

Ok Bill, what are YOU thinking?

I'm usually not the type to contemplate what I would do in an upcoming situation. Anytime I do, it plays out differently than I expected.

I picture one of the agents arriving before the buyers and I would immediately ask them if they made the buyers aware of the event. If not, I would allow the agent to be the one to tell them now, while I get to stand back and watch their reaction. That's what I did in a couple other "sensitive" situations in the past.

[Rob Amaral]

I had one where I met the suspected killer AT the house.... I'm serious.. very weird, creepy and I have to leave it at that! .. Everybody already knew and I just did my job.... I never found out what happened afterward.. weird cloudy grey day.. eeech..

[John Kogel]

Thanks, Bill. Your planned strategy is probably good. Since you live close by, it won't be a major hardship if the buyers bail out of the deal. When in doubt, punt to the agent. []

Also if the story got minimal news coverage, it won't affect the property value over the long term. Different if it was an unsolved murder.

[ejager]

It is something Realtors who want to avoid problems are supposed to reveal, as are the home owners...

http://realtors.kohalibrary.com/cgi-bin ... umber=7574

Of course, there are always still alwsuits, even up here.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/canad ... r-occurred

[Bill Kibbel]

Well, here's a legal precedent for Pennsylvania:

http://www.parjustlisted.com/archives/2897

[gtblum]

Let me spin this around in another way.

A friend and his new wife bought an awesome house about halfway up a small mountain in the southern tier of NY.

He extended an open invitation to hunt the property, to all of his friends.

I took him up on it, and stayed there for a few days. Since he was new to the area, he asked me to have any of the locals I met contact him so he would know who and how many were hunting and so he could also get together with them for a hunt when we weren't around.

Sure enough, I met a local, told him who I was, and relayed the message. While we talked, he said something about hoping they stayed there long enough to meet them. When I asked why, he told me the last three couples, including the folks who built the house, had all divorced while living there.

My friend and his wife became couple number four, a year later.

How about that for a stigmatized property?

[Greg Booth]

Let me spin this around in another way.

A friend and his new wife bought an awesome house about halfway up a small mountain in the southern tier of NY.

He extended an open invitation to hunt the property, to all of his friends.

I took him up on it, and stayed there for a few days. Since he was new to the area, he asked me to have any of the locals I met contact him so he would know who and how many were hunting and so he could also get together with them for a hunt when we weren't around.

Sure enough, I met a local, told him who I was, and relayed the message. While we talked, he said something about hoping they stayed there long enough to meet them. When I asked why, he told me the last three couples, including the folks who built the house, had all divorced while living there.

My friend and his wife became couple number four, a year later.

How about that for a stigmatized property?

..........stigmatized - or a golden opportunity, depending upon one's perspective[:-bigeyes

[John Dirks Jr]

I once reported a bullet hole in the exterior wall. I described the trajectory through the exterior wall and into the dining room, through the living room and finally impacting the header above the front door.

I had pictures included. I think I mentioned that in this forum way back when. That report is stacked on another drive somewhere around this house.

I had and out of state client I did an inspection for. They had never been on the property. The listing pictures didn't show the surroundings as usual. The house next door was a practical dump, I mean really bad. I did not include that in the official report but I did send a separate email with a few pictures and the simple comment - "this is what you see from the deck"

[Erby]

Google Earth provides some good aerial photos of surrounding areas.

[Neal Lewis]

I picture one of the agents arriving before the buyers and I would immediately ask them if they made the buyers aware of the event. If not, I would allow the agent to be the one to tell them now, while I get to stand back and watch their reaction. That's what I did in a couple other "sensitive" situations in the past.

That's a good way to handle the situation, if it plays out that way.

What if the agent turns to you and says "Please don't reveal that information to the buyer. it'll scare them away?"

[Marc]

What if the agent turns to you and says "Please don't reveal that information to the buyer. it'll scare them away?"

That's easy. We don't answer to agents.

Marc

[hausdok]

What if the agent turns to you and says "Please don't reveal that information to the buyer. it'll scare them away?"

That's easy, you just respond with, "Well, if you think it will scare them off than it's best they know anyway; otherwise, when they find out you and I both are liable to end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit. I'll tell you what, I'll let you tell them before we start. That way, if they are spooked by it, we won't have to waste our time inspecting this home."

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jim Katen]

I picture one of the agents arriving before the buyers and I would immediately ask them if they made the buyers aware of the event. If not, I would allow the agent to be the one to tell them now, while I get to stand back and watch their reaction. That's what I did in a couple other "sensitive" situations in the past.

That's a good way to handle the situation, if it plays out that way.

What if the agent turns to you and says "Please don't reveal that information to the buyer. it'll scare them away?"

That's when you tell them anyway and then quickly cover your mouth with your hand and say, "Oops, I'm sorry. Your agent here told me not to say anything about it to you because it might scare you away. My bad. Just pretend I didn't say anything."

[allseason]

Well, here's a legal precedent for Pennsylvania:

http://www.parjustlisted.com/archives/2897

But there is no "Licensing" of home inspectors in PA.

[Bill Kibbel]

Well, here's a legal precedent for Pennsylvania:

http://www.parjustlisted.com/archives/2897

But there is no "Licensing" of home inspectors in PA.

WTF does that have to do with this disclosure issue?