Grounds/Neutrals Not Isolated

[kurt]

I would appreciate it if you guys would understand this for me.

[Tom Raymond]

Your head hurts too, huh?

[John Kogel]

Your head hurts too, huh?

I will bow out now. Little mini shocks won't kill anyone, but if your health is poor to begin with, something like that could stop your pacemaker.

Here's a bit of history for y'all.

"Original Yardbirds singer and harmonica player Keith Relf was killed by a shock from his electric guitar on May 14, 1976. According to Jeremy Simmonds ?Encyclopedia of Dead Rock Stars,? Relf was shocked by the poorly grounded instrument when he leaned over a hidden gas pipe in his basement studio.

Relf had been a life-long asthma sufferer and his health was a problem through his music career. He struggled to draw breath while singing and playing harmonica early on with the Yardbirds and suffered a collapsed lung while touring with the band in the U.S. in 1964.

After the Yardbirds disbanded, Relf went on to play in a number of other successful groups, including Together and Renaissance. His health continued to deteriorate, however, and he eventually developed emphysema in addition to asthma. The shock to Relf?s body was reportedly survivable had he been in stronger physical condition.

In a 1975 interview printed in the liner notes of the Yardbirds outtake collection ?More Golden Eggs,? Relf uttered an ominous remembrance of his time with the band.

?If I could put into one word what the essence of the Yardbirds was - it would be ?electricity,?? he said." Shocking stuff, eh what??

[palmettoinspect]

While on subject I have a question: (not trying to beat a dead horse)

When is a panel considered a sub panel? I was under the impression that wherever the main/first disconnect is located that's considered the "main" panel and all other distribution panels after should be wired/are considered sub panels.

Are there any instances where there're main disconnects located at the meter that the distribution panels, typically located inside the home, can have 3 wire mains with shared neutral and grounds?

Thanks,

Kiel

[Marc]

While on subject I have a question: (not trying to beat a dead horse)

When is a panel considered a sub panel? I was under the impression that wherever the main/first disconnect is located that's considered the "main" panel and all other distribution panels after should be wired/are considered sub panels.

Are there any instances where there're main disconnects located at the meter that the distribution panels, typically located inside the home, can have 3 wire mains with shared neutral and grounds?

Thanks,

Kiel

There's an AHJ here who argued with me that the conductors running between the main disconnect and the main panel - which were in different enclosures - was a feeder and not SEC's.

If he's correct then that panel is technically a sub-panel even if it's the only panel in the house.

I tended to disagree with him but couldn't argue.

Marc

[Jim Katen]

While on subject I have a question: (not trying to beat a dead horse)

When is a panel considered a sub panel? I was under the impression that wherever the main/first disconnect is located that's considered the "main" panel and all other distribution panels after should be wired/are considered sub panels.

"Sub Panel" and "Main Panel" are not defined by the NEC. In common usage, any panel downstream of the service disconnect is considered a sub panel.

Are there any instances where there're main disconnects located at the meter that the distribution panels, typically located inside the home, can have 3 wire mains with shared neutral and grounds?

None that I'm aware of.

[Marc]

"Sub Panel" and "Main Panel" are not defined by the NEC. In common usage, any panel downstream of the service disconnect is considered a sub panel.

Unless the disconnect and panel are both within the same enclosure.

Marc

[palmettoinspect]

While on subject I have a question: (not trying to beat a dead horse)

When is a panel considered a sub panel? I was under the impression that wherever the main/first disconnect is located that's considered the "main" panel and all other distribution panels after should be wired/are considered sub panels.

"Sub Panel" and "Main Panel" are not defined by the NEC. In common usage, any panel downstream of the service disconnect is considered a sub panel.

Are there any instances where there're main disconnects located at the meter that the distribution panels, typically located inside the home, can have 3 wire mains with shared neutral and grounds?

None that I'm aware of.

Me either Jim! Just wanted to make sure. This listing agent I'm dealing with is pulling out every trick in the book making me double guess myself.

Thanks!

Kiel