Double Faced Insulation?

[rbaake]

Called out fiberglass batt insulation installed up-side down in a crawlspace last week. Client was told by the homeowner that the material was "double faced" and installed properly.

I Googled "double faced batt insulation", and found nothing.

It contains no combustible warning but appears to be typical kraft paper. House is about 40 years old.

Anyone ever hear of this product?

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[hausdok]

Hi,

Yeah, it's double-faced and the side you are looking at is the vapor barrier side. See the asphalt emulsion bleeding through the paper. If you'd reached up to the other side and examined the facing, you would have discovered that the facing on the other side of the batt doesn't have an asphalt emulsion covering it. It still needs to be flipped.

I'd go back, take ten minutes to confirm what I just told you, explain it to the buyer and seller and then hold out my hand and say, "That'll be $150 - who's paying me for this trip?"

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Steven Hockstein]

I would stick to my professional opinion and invite the seller to provide legit documentation that proves otherwise (he can't).

[John Kogel]

While it is technically incorrect, I would not have made a big deal about it. Why? Because it is doing no harm as is. The 'vapor barrier' is about as leaky as an old coffee sack, so no moisture is getting trapped in there.

There is no open flame source. Let it go. JMO.

[hausdok]

While it is technically incorrect, I would not have made a big deal about it. Why? Because it is doing no harm as is. The 'vapor barrier' is about as leaky as an old coffee sack, so no moisture is getting trapped in there.

There is no open flame source. Let it go. JMO.

There's a problem with just letting it go.

When they go to sell the house years from now, some smarty pants home inspector is liable to come out of there and point out to the buyer that the insulation is installed upside down, at which point the buyer may demand that the seller, your former client, pay to have that stuff flipped.

Now, up to that point Roy might have been considered a good inspector by his former client; but once he causes that client to get burnt because he "just let it go" that client is going to be pissed. They might not come after Roy directly due to the amount of time that's elapsed but they can hurt him in other ways by telling everyone they know how he cost them money.

If it's wrong, it's wrong. Tell 'em it's wrong. Tell 'em what could happen if it's not corrected - even if you think the likelihood of that happening is slim - and then tell 'em what the fix is and let them work it out. If they choose not to push the issue it's on them, and if it bites them 7, 8, 10 years from now they can't put it on you.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[kurt]

When they go to sell the house years from now, some smarty pants home inspector is liable to come out of there and point out to the buyer that the insulation is installed upside down, at which point the buyer may demand that the seller, your former client, pay to have that stuff flipped.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

That's a common situation when one doesn't write up all the little piss ant stuff that's never going to amount to anything. I find myself writing about stupid stuff that's technically wrong, common as dirt, that no one would ever care about or be effected by, except some HI school graduate plugs in a long paragraph of boilerplate making me look like I'm negligent.

It adds a lot of time to the report generation.

[rbaake]

This client found me in an unusual way.

Seems he liked the report I had written for the buyer of a house he sold...so much for the confidentiality disclaimer plastered on every page of the report!

[John Kogel]

This client found me in an unusual way.

Seems he liked the report I had written for the buyer of a house he sold...so much for the confidentiality disclaimer plastered on every page of the report!

I get a fair number of jobs from sellers who know about me cuz I went thru their house. Maybe they saw my report, or just heard what I found from the buyer.

I leave a letter of introduction, a brochure and a biz card, in every occupied house I inspect. Unoccupied, I will leave a biz card.

Re: the insulation, yes, mention it for CYA. I just don't think it matters much.

[Patricius]

I actually write it all up as a cya as well, but on some of these items I downplay them verbally onsite so as to not make the issues bigger than what they are.

[Brandon Whitmore]

Any of the newer stuff will state something about the fact that the paper facing shouldn't be exposed, so there's that........

[Darren]

Several years ago I attended a seminar administrated by the NJDCA (New Jersey's board for building codes).

The speaker, an engineer, stated he actually specs the insulation be installed with the vapor barrier installed facing the crawlspace as thats where the moisture is located. My inspection yesterday had the same installation except it was foil faced. Here's my section of the report:

"The insulation is installed with the vapor barrier facing the crawlspace. Although it goes against common building practices, some engineers and architects recommend this installation because it will prevent the crawlspace moisture from being absorbed into the insulation. Since I see no current problems, keep it as installed."

[hausdok]

If you have a vapor barrier properly installed in the crawlspace the humidity level in the crawlspace will be lower than that in the house. Vapor diffusion is going to go from warm/moist to cooler/drier which is the crawlspace. With the barrier on the bottom when the moisture passes through the insulation it hits that cold barrier where it can condense.

Of course, I don't know how you do your crawlspaces there in Noo Joysee.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Eric B]

Technically, asphalt impregnated paper has too high a perm rating to be considered a barrier. Retarder is a more accurate term. Splitting hairs perhaps but I've learned to be spot on whenever possible in this job.

[mlparham]

When they go to sell the house years from now, some smarty pants home inspector is liable to come out of there and point out to the buyer that the insulation is installed upside down, at which point the buyer may demand that the seller, your former client, pay to have that stuff flipped.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

That's a common situation when one doesn't write up all the little piss ant stuff that's never going to amount to anything. I find myself writing about stupid stuff that's technically wrong, common as dirt, that no one would ever care about or be effected by, except some HI school graduate plugs in a long paragraph of boilerplate making me look like I'm negligent.

It adds a lot of time to the report generation.

Kurt,

You are so right on. I guess that about 60% of my report comments on older homes are all about stuff that does not matter.

Like someone else said but that I do not understand; the last man in is more creditable than the expert.

[Erby]

Credible?

CYAWP? (with paper)

[Jim Katen]

I actually write it all up as a cya as well, but on some of these items I downplay them verbally onsite so as to not make the issues bigger than what they are.

That's a really bad idea. It makes you look untrustworthy and unreliable when you write one thing and say something else.

*If you think something's a problem, say so.

*If you think somthing isn't a problem, say so.

*Never try to cover you butt at your client's expense. It doesn't work.

*Always cover your client's butt. Then yours will be covered automatically.

[Jim Katen]

Several years ago I attended a seminar administrated by the NJDCA (New Jersey's board for building codes).

The speaker, an engineer, stated he actually specs the insulation be installed with the vapor barrier installed facing the crawlspace as thats where the moisture is located.

He doesn't understand moisture.