Devereaux412 Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I just attended the ASHI School in Des Plaines for two weeks. I have to admit, I was really disappointed. They charge $3,499 and don't even have the decency to provide you with breakfast or lunch. You're in class from 8-5 where all the "instructors" really do is read slides that you were already supposed to review on your own before attending. The field inspections were also not very educational. They have 12 students trying to follow two inspectors and you don't get much hands on experience. They also say they're going to explain the software they recommend, Horizon. But, none of them ever have used Horizon so they basically tell you that you're on your own. This school is a racket, I would avoid it at all costs. We were even given $8 GFCI testers one day to use, and they asked for them back. How cheap can you be? Save your money and just order the Carson Dunlop material online. You will get the exact same education without the overinflated expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Devereaux, I appreciate your feed back about the ASHI School. It is nice to hear both sides of the experience. I also appreciate the fact you write in paragraphs and seem to be able to put two or more thoughts together. Why did you choose ASHI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devereaux412 Posted September 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I work for an engineering firm and decided one day that I feel like I'm slowly dying coming to work each day and sitting in a cubicle. So, one day I decided to reach out to some local home inspectors and get their thoughts on the industry. I did some research and decided to try and get trained through Carson Dunlop. I was quickly informed that in the state of Kansas I needed hands on training to get certified. So, I was referred to the ASHI School. The ASHI School is probably worth about $300 including the books. I would have rather read the Carson Dunlop book, did the workbook and then paid a practicing home inspector a certain fee to shadow and learn from him over the period of a few weeks. Instead I paid the inflated amount that the ASHI School charges while being disrespected by their instructors on a daily basis. One of the instructors even makes it a habit of checking his Facebook all day and then falling asleep. It was really a complete disappointment. Now I have to find a way to get some on-site training on my own, despite having paid that fee to the ASHI School. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erby Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Bummer, you got a good school right there in Leavenworth. http://www.midwestinsp.com/ Standard one week or alternative for those who can't take a week! And Tom FEEDS you good! It's where I went many years ago. Download a trial of HomeGauge Software and try it. It's what I chose. Might also download a trail of InspectExpress and try it. I haven't but know some on here use it. Search the forums here. There's several reviews and discussions on the different softrware available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Kurtmit, Hope you're paying attention to this thread. We need to pick up our conversation where we left it last. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Devereaux412, So, you paid $3499 for two weeks of a school where it sounds like the instructors weren't very professional and you got little practical experience. Just curious, if you had the money, or financing was readily available, what would you have been willing to pay for a school that lasted, say, 90 days, had you in classrooms or out on inspection or construction site labs 8 hours a day for 5 days a week for a total of 480 hours of training? What would you have paid for a school where you didn't just learn the textbook stuff but were taught practical aspects of the business by seasoned inspectors who treated you like a pro and were pros, where you learned not only the inspection stuff but also about the business aspect of running this gig, where you learned to work your program of choice upside down backwards and forwards. What would you have paid for a course where 100% of your rooming was paid for and you got three squares a day - all paid for - and all of your books and whatever tools you'll need as an inspector - short of a vehicle - were supplied with the course and you kept them. What would you have paid for a course where on weekends you were free to take in the local sights or go fishing or hunting or hiking or whatever with your classmates and the staff and get unparralelled opportunity to talk one-on-one with those experienced guys and pick their brains about this new life you want to start - the pluses, the minuses, everything? What would you have paid for a course where you were guaranteed at least 40 hours of on-site inspection time one-on-one with a respected professional inspector? What would you pay for a course where you have a mentor you can go to 24/7 after graduation to help you figure stuff out? What would you have paid for literally two years worth of junior college courses and hours compressed into 90 days? If you have every been in the military, what would you have paid for a military style course setup with total immersion in what you're going to be doing - practical exercises, hands-on training, etc.? Would you have preferred that kind of training? What would you have paid for that experience? Now, don't answer as a cheap S.O.B. Think about what folks are paying for these shake-n-bake courses like you just attended and imagine a course where you leave with the knowledge that most of those shake-n-bake guys take three or four years to accumulate after they finish training when you say what you'd pay if you could afford it or it could be made affordable to you. What would that have been worth to you to change your life and give you a huge leg-up on all of the shake-n-bake inspectors you'll be competing with for the next few years while you try and survive long enough to get back in the black? Hmmm? ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Kurtmit, Hope you're paying attention to this thread. We need to pick up our conversation where we left it last. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike He's in Yellowstone, probably doing weird stuff to beavers. ASHI sucks for so very many, many reasons. Too bad it would cost me more to remove the ASHI crap from all my stuff than it would be worth. I do get enough biz a year from them to, barely, justify staying a member, but I haven't been asked if I'm ASHI in years. I would never join today if I was just starting. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Kienitz Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Kurtmit, Hope you're paying attention to this thread. We need to pick up our conversation where we left it last. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike He's in Yellowstone, probably doing weird stuff to beavers. ASHI sucks for so very many, many reasons. Too bad it would cost me more to remove the ASHI crap from all my stuff than it would be worth. I do get enough biz a year from them to, barely, justify staying a member, but I haven't been asked if I'm ASHI in years. I would never join today if I was just starting. . . Same reason I didn't renew my ASHI membership last year. The ROI from the feeds via ASHI linkage kept going down and down. My last year showed only one ASHI referral and that didn't cover the fees. I used to get 12-15 per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Live from Yellowstone, Mammoth Hot Springs Lodge where I am able to get a signal.....since there's no beavers around, I figured I'd respond. ASHI School is (still yet) another thinly veiled vendor-society arrangement wherein "schooling" is provided as the lead in to selling the report writing system of the moment, which, in this case, is almost as lousy as the Matrix hairball. It's win-win for ASHI and vendor of the moment....lose-lose for the folks that took the bait. This is a business where mentoring and hands on is not just a nice thing, it's an absolute necessity. ASHI should be ashamed, but the boys in charge think this is how one advances the profession. Sorry to hear you had such a poor experience. If it's any consolation, come to Chicago for a couple weeks, I'll put more information and practical work experience into your noggin as you could find anywhere. And yes, Mike, I'm listening. You're right, as usual. OK, back to listening to the elk bugling up in the woods somewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander238 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Figuring student/instructor ratio of 10:1, say an instructor makes $8,000/mo (double that number for support staff and benefits); room ($20/day/90days); food $10day/90days); school supplies (might get promotional rates from vendors), software, books, tools $1,000 (figure derived from one year of books at a local university); $1,000 premium for the school for facility and lab. I figure the 40 hour 1 on 1 is included in the 480 hours and is included in salary. 24/7 support is part of staff support. Total package $9,400 If a person considered what he/she would pay for a franchise, that's a bargain. Some problems: 1) Accrediting 2) Convincing someone that they will succeded (people tend to think a franchise will guarantee success, JAO) 3) Marketing and maintaining student flow (startup and in good/bad times) 4) Time away from family. I think most start up inspectors are older, around 40+ (again JAO) and have families that would frown on the time away. 5) A serious program like this would only attract serious folk; as many of you know, this business trends to attract persons wishing to make "easy" money. The gene pool shrinks yet further. I wish I'd had that kind of intense training (and the business startup education and software instruction). I actually spent the better part of two years on getting into this business and trying out software before going to school (and yes, I read this entire forum, even had a method for that). I had the benefit of a realtor friend (I know those two words shouldn't be paired together) who let me into houses and I used information from this forum to make sense of it all. My official schooling was good (I learned about as much about what I did not want for my business as what I did). All said, I would have paid the $9,400 less the room and board. I am not in a place where I could take that kind of time away from my family, but the thought of that kind of training, now, would have been welcome. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devereaux412 Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think what I said must have been misleading to get these type of responses. I'm by no means looking to make easy money, I'm looking to find a career I will enjoy that doesn't confine me to an office each day. The course was highly unorganized. They shipped books two weeks prior to class with the expectation that you would put in 40 hours to read them and fill out the workbooks prior to attending the class. When I arrived at the class, there were 12 total students. All we did was read slides straight from the book along with hearing stories of these instructor/inspectors greatest feats in the field. What we received was no real hands on experience. If any of us asked for additional information or for one of the instructors to explain something more in depth, they would be highly disrespectful. Mentioning things like they are getting paid to be around us. That was comical considering how much they charge. If I knew now when I knew before I signed up I would have invested all that money somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devereaux412 Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Mike, I was by no means looking for what you call "shake-n-bake" courses. I did some research, I was told Carson Dunlop was the best from a training standpoint and they told me to go to the ASHI School. I was given false promises that they would give me in depth training over a two week span. My state requires 80 hours of hands on training, so it left me with little options. The reason I chose the course that I did is because I wanted to do this right to gain as much knowledge as possible. Unfortunately, I didn't know it was a scam. After receiving my money I can barely get a response from anybody at the ASHI school. I would never have chose a mediocre course, I wanted the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lamb Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Have you voiced your complaints on the ASHI forum and a letter to the president and others who run the show? I know it does nothing to change things at ASHI but it gives you a small voice and maybe some good responses. There are no seasoned ASHI guys or others near Kansas City that will let you ride along? Even for a fee? Is there a definition of "hands on training?" I consider reading and researching hands-on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 If your State requires class room training it will have a minimum standard and most likely will have approved the curriculum. If the instruction really is as lame as you say I'm sure the licensing body would be interested in hearing about it. Unfortunately the course you expected doesn't exist. What you experienced is what we call shake-n-bake. If the program is presented really well you will be prepared to pass your State exam and have a good handle on just how much you still need to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander238 Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Deveraux412, Please understand I was not shooting at you. I, too, have had limited experience with the shake-n-bake. My post was a response to what I would have liked to see as well. The course Mike was referring to is what would be a "dream" education for many of us. I did not mean to offend, or make light of your situation. My experience has been, that these courses promise big, but do not meet all expectations. Each person's journey is different and much of that journey (at least for me) has been me searching for ways to improve my knowledge base on what I already knew, and better ways to communicate that information to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 If your State requires class room training it will have a minimum standard and most likely will have approved the curriculum. If the instruction really is as lame as you say I'm sure the licensing body would be interested in hearing about it. Right on! Voice your concerns to your state's HI regulatory agency and put that shake n' bake on broil! Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Mike, I was by no means looking for what you call "shake-n-bake" courses. I did some research, I was told Carson Dunlop was the best from a training standpoint and they told me to go to the ASHI School. I was given false promises that they would give me in depth training over a two week span. My state requires 80 hours of hands on training, so it left me with little options. The reason I chose the course that I did is because I wanted to do this right to gain as much knowledge as possible. Unfortunately, I didn't know it was a scam. After receiving my money I can barely get a response from anybody at the ASHI school. I would never have chose a mediocre course, I wanted the best. OK, So, I believe that I've described the ideal course to you above. If you had to do it all over again, and knowing what you know now, what would it have been worth to you to attend that kind of course, considering what you'd paid for a mediocre course a fraction of it's length and scope? ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Mike O. et al, First we have to establish a much shorter name for Devereaux! He sounds like a pretty nice guy so something familiar would be nice. Second, several inspectors on this board have decades of experience with ASHI and the education program. For the record, I have not heard anything good and I am one of those ASHI folks. Disrespect for students is not ever excused nor should it be tolerated. D........x likely does not know many of us have the necessary experience to mentor and several of us are ASHI Mentors. Unfortunately the timing of D.......x's posts is not very good, as Kurt, Jim K, Bill K, Douglas, etc are off the forum grid for much of september. Mike O is a real flamer about education and I used to be. Seems D.....x's post stirred us up a little. Before I forget I want to acknowledge Tom R's comment regarding reading and research as "hands on". I couldn't agree more! But if I have a group of folks in an academic setting (classroom) I would not use "hands-0n " to describe the activity. For inspectors hands-on should be exactly that; service entrance panels, plumbing fittings, walking on roof?, ladder safety, little bit of legal, hvac, and lots of vocabulary! This business/profession is about thinking first and knowledge second. Read Read Read and then take some time and Read. I invite everyone to participate in this thread because it is most important to our business and profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I really like getting props from you Les, but the credit should go to Mike Lamb since it was his comment. I suggested that Dev, (Dex?) report his instructors to his State's licensing body. Our new friend might best be served by distinguishing between the lousy treatment and instruction he received and the crappy curriculum he was so disappointed with. They're separate issues and need to be addressed as such. There should be a fairly straight forward complaint process in place through the State, and I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something similar at ASHI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottpat Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 As we all know whenever we hear about a complaint you always have two sides to the story, I'm sure the same holds true with issue. If you look into the ASHI program you will find that a good deal of the per-school material is online and some is mailed directly to the students. It is sent to them within a few days after they register. This is not the entire story, I'm sure...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 But if I have a group of folks in an academic setting (classroom) I would not use "hands-0n " to describe the activity. For inspectors hands-on should be exactly that; service entrance panels, plumbing fittings, walking on roof?, ladder safety, little bit of legal, hvac, and lots of vocabulary! Hi Les, I couldn't agree more. The course I described above would have lots of hands-on time in buildings where students actually got to put their hands on things, climb up onto roofs, get down and dirty in crawlspaces, etc. and see things the way they really are. Our state requires 120 hours of in-classroom education and doesn't allow one to teach the students anything not related directly to home inspections. By providing four times as many hours, that course provides time for plenty of "lab" work and houses and construction sites would be the labs. For example, bringing in industry experts to teach about modern state-of-the-art electro-mechanical systems could be included and wouldn't need to be approved by the state because they'd be brought in outside of those 120 hours for mandated curriculum and one can thus bring them in as needed whenever they are needed without waiting for a state licensing authority to approve their presentations. Only one guy has voiced what he thinks it's worth. I think he'd too light. Remember that the ITA long course used to charge almost that for a two week course just a few years ago. If you were to decide you wanted to go to college for four years and get a bacholor degree what would one have to pay? $50,000? This is investing in one's future. Getting a real start in t his gig instead of entering the field and then casting around for help with every minute issue for months even years on end; before you finally get yourself up to speed and start earning decent money again. We always tell folks not to get into this gig unless they've got enough set aside to tide themselves over for a couple of years. Tiding oneself over for a couple of years means expecting to lose a whole lot of money before you start earning a little bit and gradually increase that revenue. It can be years before you recover those lost funds if you start off flat broke and don't know anything and are feeling your way around this profession like someone in a game of pin the tail on the donkey. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devereaux412 Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Guys, I really appreciate all this information. You can call me Dev, it's a lot easier than typing out Devereaux each time. I have reached out to people in Kansas City and I'm willing to pay a fee, but I've not received any responses. I just wrote a letter explaining how unprofessional the ASHI School experience is to the ASHI CEO, Jeff Arnold. I plan on writing a similar letter to the board of Kansas. Hand-on may be a bad term. What I mean is learning by doing. I'm not alone in my opinions of the training that the ASHI School provides, there were 11 other guys in my class that feel the same way. We are all on an email chain discussing what we can do to prevent others from taking the path we did. Sure, my dream training is a H.I. that enjoys mentoring and would be comfortable showing me the ropes. Now finding that person or persons is the real challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I refused to do inspections on my own until completing over 100 with an experienced inspector. Should have been 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devereaux412 Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Bill, how did you get to that point? I find it hard to just get one inspection done with an experienced H.I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kibbel Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Bill, how did you get to that point? I find it hard to just get one inspection done with an experienced H.I. I convinced someone that after they trained me (while paying me), I would be a great addition to their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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