Boiler Help needed

[Erby]

I see very few boilers. This one was in my afternoon inspection. I raised the temperature on each of the thermostats, waited about an hour and checked each of the radiators with an infrared thermometer. Each of the radiators was producing heat.

Any added thoughts on this set up.

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[hausdok]

So,

Was it in a space with 9,000 sf of volume or did they have some other means of getting combustion air into that room so that it will burn cleanly?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Erby]

Nope. Not even close. 180,000 BTU gas fired boiler and 40,000 BTU gas fired water heater in a room 9'6" by 10'6" by 8" high = 798 CUBIC feet and NO combustion makeup air vents. Nary a one.

Some things you just shake your head at!

[Tom Corrigan]

The union should be downstream of the gas shutoff valve (see the last picture).

Tom Corrigan

[hausdok]

Nope. Not even close. 180,000 BTU gas fired boiler and 40,000 BTU gas fired water heater in a room 9'6" by 10'6" by 8" high = 798 CUBIC feet and NO combustion makeup air vents. Nary a one.

Some things you just shake your head at!

Ever had the urge to pick up the phone and call the guys whose name is on the installation tag on a unit and ask for the boss so you can ask him what kind of morons he's got working for him? I've come pretty close a couple of times. One of these days I'm going to do it just for the hell of it.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Darren]

Here's so things I include just for informational purposes:

'The heating system has multiple zones; this also means there are zones valves present. These valves open & close to allow (hot) water to flow thru a specific zone. While all zone valves were tested, you must be aware these valves do wear out and replacement should be considered a maintenance issue.'

'There is no air scoop installed on this hot water system. Although not required, an air scoop is a good upgrade to eliminate air in the pipes. Air in the pipes makes the system noisy and can create air lock. You should consider having an air scoop installed to help eliminate noise.'

[Neal Lewis]

Erby, the water supply feed is missing a backflow preventer valve.

You really ran that system for a solid hour?

[kurt]

Why not? American Standard is a good old boiler.

The pressure reducing valve acts as a back flow preventer, and the gas valve downstream of the union is a pilot shutoff. It's OK. Various locales can get picky about both, but both were considered SOP at the time this boiler was installed, and are actually just fine.

Has anyone ever seen a room big enough to accommodate the combustion appliances? I never do, and I never see combustion air vents (well, rarely).

[Tom Raymond]

If it ran for an hour it's broken.

Neal, boilers didn't require backflow preventers 50 years ago.

The zone valve arrangement is comical.

When the vinyl sheet flooring under it ignites it's efficiency will increase, but only briefly.

[Les]

What is an air scoop? Something Jimmy Olsen might find at an air show?

[kurt]

I'm sure I can also come up with a couple more things to get persnickety about, but there's really nothing wrong with the boiler that a couple combustion air vents won't correct.

The thing ran for an hour because some other elements are entirely out of balance. That boiler's been there for 35+ years; folks did stuff different back then, air scoops were not common, zone controls were archaic, etc.

It's fine. About half the btu's of that leviathan are going up the chimney, that's why it ran for an hour.

I sometimes wonder if HI's are aware of "context". Everything is wrong in the book, so it's not an entirely useful way to look at stuff.

[John Kogel]

Give us the persnickety on that boiler. We already know it works. []

When the clients want additional info, "Why should we replace it or what can we do to improve or fix it?", that is when we want those details.

[Neal Lewis]

Well, I look at boilers every single day. Even a steam boiler doesn't need to be run for an hour to determine if it's working. Put your hand on the returns after 15 minutes, even if they're cast iron rads.

[Erby]

I raised the temperature on each of the thermostats, waited about an hour and checked each of the radiators with an infrared thermometer. Each of the radiators was producing heat.

I think y'all are not reading comprehensively. It didn't run for an hour, I waited an hour to check the radiators after jacking the thermostats before checking the radiators for heat output.

Reading comprehension@!

[kurt]

Well, it was not at all clear......you jacked the thermostats and waited an hour. Seems reasonable to think it ran for an hour.

Either way, it's still not a bad deal. Those old American Standard boilers were great pieces of equipment. It's not a bad install for a boiler that's probably hitting 40+ years.

When it leaks in a few years, everyone can get as persnickety as they want when the new boiler goes in.

[Erby]

In any case, I appreciate the help and knowledge.

[Darren]

Hey Neal;

Do you mention the lack of an air scoop?

I got a call back once because of air lock and no heat on the 2nd floor. Sears came out an told my client an air scoop is required so I got the call back. Ever since then, I note the lack of one.

[Neal Lewis]

I haven't mentioned it, Darren. Thanks. I like the installs where there's a Spirovent...