To cut the strap or not....that is the question

[DonTx]

Okay, someone go get JP, I have bonding question...LOL...NOT!

Here's the set up. I have the main service entrance and three panel boxes on one side of the home and two (I'll call 'em sub panels for now) in the garage. Here's the set up at the meter.

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Two main service panels on top, another panel on bottom serving the pool equipment.

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Here's a pic of the box serving the pool equipment.

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Now the two "sub panels" in the garage still had the strap bonding the ground and neutral bus bars.

If I've got this right, the ground and neutrals are already bonded in the 2 main panels. So the straps connecting the ground and neutral bus bars in the garage sub panels need to be cut. Also, the green wire in the lower panel for the pool equipment looks like a ground wire and will need to be seperated from the neutral wire. Correct?

If not, show me the error of my ways!

Thanks,

[Brian G]

Originally posted by Donald Lawson

Two main service panels on top, another panel on bottom serving the pool equipment.

That's how it looks, but if you didn't open that gutter you really don't know what they did in there. Did you?

Now the two "sub panels" in the garage still had the strap bonding the ground and neutral bus bars.

If I've got this right, the ground and neutrals are already bonded in the 2 main panels. So the straps connecting the ground and neutral bus bars in the garage sub panels need to be cut.

If you're right about what is main and what is sub, yes. Cut, removed, whatever, and the enclosure bonded but only on the bar with the equipment grounds.

Also, the green wire in the lower panel for the pool equipment looks like a ground wire and will need to be seperated from the neutral wire. Correct?

I would say yes again, but it's possible there's some weird pool equipment exception I'm not aware of. Norm?

Brian G.

IT'S NOT A MAIN PANEL, IT'S THE SERVICE DISCONNECT, OKAY?! Jerry Peck [:-gnasher

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by Donald Lawson

Okay, someone go get JP, I have bonding question...LOL...NOT!

Hey, don't laugh, the man knows his bonding.

Here's the set up. I have the main service entrance and three panel boxes on one side of the home and two (I'll call 'em sub panels for now) in the garage. Here's the set up at the meter.

Two main service panels on top, another panel on bottom serving the pool equipment.

Until I can see what's going on in that gutter, I'm going to guess that the pool panel is also a service panel.

Now the two "sub panels" in the garage still had the strap bonding the ground and neutral bus bars.

If I've got this right, the ground and neutrals are already bonded in the 2 main panels. So the straps connecting the ground and neutral bus bars in the garage sub panels need to be cut.

I think you're right. Though "cut" might not be the right word. Maybe "disconnected," or "separated."

Also, the green wire in the lower panel for the pool equipment looks like a ground wire and will need to be seperated from the neutral wire. Correct?

Not if it's a service disconnect. And you can't tell that without either opening the gutter or switching things off to see what goes dead. (I don't recommend either one.) In any case, the 100 amp backfed main in that panel should be fastened in place with an accessory clip.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[DonTx]

Originally posted by Jim Katen

Originally posted by Donald Lawson

Okay, someone go get JP, I have bonding question...LOL...NOT!

Hey, don't laugh, the man knows his bonding.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

I don't doubt JP knows quite a bit about bonding and many other things. I'm sure he's an outstanding and knowledgeable inspector.

It's his...hmmmm....let's just say "communication style" rubs me the wrong way. The "if you don't agree with me you're wrong and even if you do agree with me, you're still wrong" style gets a little old. That and the need to reply on every single freakin' post, sometimes more than once. LOL

I think the classic case was when WJ called him out over saying any A/C condenser with a worn data plate needed replaced. That was Classic.

Thanks for the advice on the gutters. I've never opened one myself. I read somewhere, perhaps it was here or in Douglas's book, that you should never open one. Ever since, I've been curious to see the inside of one but my healthy respect of electricity keeps me from doing it.

The reason I use the word "cut" for the bonding straps is because that's how it's done around here most often (when it's done at all). I think removing the straps altogether would be better, but it takes longer to do that cutting the thin ones. (I believe SD has a very thick strap, more like a plate)

[Brian G]

I've only run into a few gutters, but I don't mind opening them unless they're in a situation where things look difficult. They're nothing but a long junction box. I carry a good battery screwdriver, so it's quick and easy, even with a dozen screws. I'd certainly understand if someone else wasn't comfortable doing that though, clearly beyond standards.

Brian G.

Gutter Bum []

[Brian G]

A seal? What kind? A local utility type thing?

Brian G.

I Hear Seal Tastes Just Like Chicken [:-slaphap

[mcramer]

What's that flex conduit coming off of the top of the gutter?

[DonTx]

Well Mr. Cramer, that would be the flex conduit for the A/C wiring.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by Donald Lawson

Well Mr. Cramer, that would be the flex conduit for the A/C wiring.

Good gravy! Did they tap it ahead of the service disconnect? Or did they tap it off the load side of that left disconnect?

You know, I don't recommend that anyone open a hot gutter, but honestly I don't think I could have resisted in this case. I'll bet there's a disaster in there.

I'm also curious about the holes in the stucco and the unused blue plastic screw sheaths.

Something's rotten in Denmark.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Brian G]

Since the subject has come up, I found this gutter on a house early last week. There's three 2/0 copper wires coming in from an underground service, split-bolted together with other 2/0 feeders supplying one 150 amp main panel (left) and one 200 amp main panel (right). 2/0 is the right size for a 200 and plenty + for a 150, but seems too small for one of each to me. No signs of heat or any other obvious problems as a result, but...

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I hesitated to speak as if I was certain, due to a shadowy fear of strange de-rating exceptions, etc., that I may be unaware of. In the report I recommended inspection, evaluation, and any needed corrections by a qualified electrician instead, and verbally told my client what I thought about it. Any feedback or comments are welcomed, other than yada-yada over one's personal choice of adjectives to describe a recommended contractor / expert.

Brian G.

My Mind Was in the Gutter at the Time Your Honor [:-drool]

[mcramer]

Originally posted by Donald Lawson

Well Mr. Cramer, that would be the flex conduit for the A/C wiring.

And where is the disconnect for that? Looks like it's tapped off of the service conductors inside the gutter. If so, that's a big no no.

[DonTx]

Believe it or not, it did run to a disconnect box. You can't tell by the picture, but the flex stopped shortly behind the SP. Like they just stuck it in there. There were about a dozen items that were wrote up on the electrical, that flex was just one.