Lets Talk Mold and The Current State its In

[DanwithDT]

Hello Everyone,

My Name is Dan, I'm a new member here and so far this sub-forum is very interesting. I remove mold by trade. Before I'm strung up an sent to the gallows by everyone, let me give you my views on it.

First, the only thing I do is remove mold and water damaged materials AFTER the water/moisture problem has been addressed. The company I started with was one that used ''scare tactics''. Thats all I will say about them for now.

Starting up my own company has opened my eyes to a lot of problems in the industry. The first thing that bothers me is certifications. They're so many out there it makes my head spin. On top of that, you have to have a certification in order to get liability insurance. And they don't care where the certification comes from. Neither do the Real Estate Agents, banks and many clients. Its just how it is right now.

However, I do like the ACAC and the top members seem to despise the people who get into the business to strike gold. Their radio show ''IAQ Radio'' is also very informative and I highly recommend you give it a listen. Its not just about mold. I would also like to hear some member opinions on the organization.

Another thing that bothers me is how a majority of the public thinks mold is so bad. Opening them up to the ''mold is gold'' crew. While I think high concentrations of mold in the household are unhealthy and need to be addressed, I'm often telling prospective clients to stop freaking out. I do not answer any health related questions about mold, I tell them to consult their Health Care Professional, as I think they are the ONLY ones qualified to give that type of advice.

Now, testing. I always knew that if visible mold or the smell of mildew is present, testing is not needed, but I have had clients insist they get testing done. Its their money they're wasting, not mine. As far as post remediation testing is concerned, I've always felt that it was unnecessary. But sometimes it is necessary. Banks often want it done, and from what I've heard, Real Estate Agents and Landlords have to get air testing done in order to sell or rent a property. The test must show levels of mold similar to the outside of the property or they have to disclose a mold/water problem. And most people run away from a house that has had a lot of mold in it.

The reason I made this post is to get everyones opinion on where the country stands on mold issues and to let everyone know that not all microbial remediators and companies have bad intentions, and that we do provide a valuable service. There seems to be a lot of people on here that think remediators are worthless.

So far, I think it's pretty easy to spot the ''mold is gold'' crew from their websites. The two companies in MD, that IMO, are the best, have very simple websites. They don't use the ''killer mold'' scheme.

Cheers,

Dan

[Jerry Simon]

If you edit your post and use apostrophes, I'll reply.

'Course, I don't have much to offer (though I used to enjoy Gallo wine).

[DanwithDT]

Not on here looking for grammer nazi's. Just thoughts and opinions on the topic.

Thanks,

Dan

[Marc]

Good post Dan. Good position on mold too, IMHO.

Marc

[Jerry Simon]

Not on here looking for grammer nazi's. Just thoughts and opinions on the topic.

Thanks,

Dan

It's "grammar".

You're welcome.

(Sorry. . . I'm board)

[Bain]

Not on here looking for grammer nazi's. Just thoughts and opinions on the topic.

Thanks,

Dan

It's "grammar".

You're welcome.

(Sorry. . . I'm board)

hee . . . .

[hausdok]

Hi,

I agree with Marc. So his spelling isn't the best - so what, he outlined his position well; and, for a guy who doesn't write for a living like we do, he did a pretty good job. Cut him some slack.

Let's get back on track and address the core of what he came here to talk about.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Jerry Simon]

Dan,

Thanks for editing your original post; easier, for me at least, to read, and a well-written post like that encourages a serious reply, at least from a-holes like me.

As Marc said, you make some very good points, and I only have a question for someone with your background; what is your opinion of lawyers/lawsuits and mold, and/or have you had any experience with such?

Thanks much.

[greggovett]

My first post here, thought I would chime in. I'm from a family of contractors and have been around construction for years, recently getting my home inspectors license. although I don't specialize in mold removal I have run into it.

My thoughts are that if you find obvious mold, you locate the source of the problem fix it, remove any traces and repair/make everything look nice again. Most people are aware that there is an over abundance of DIY shows and will trust an experienced persons opinions.

I did however have one couple that insisted that since I wasn't concerned about how bad mold was must have meant that I didn't know what I was doing. I tried to explain that the mold test that the "experts" do is pretty much the same test anyone can buy from home depot and send in. Never the less they went with someone who advertised that they were mold certified. Not sure how it turned out but not my concern anymore.

Anyway to make a long story short I don't think mold is by any means healthy to find in a house but when you discover it you deal with the source, as it is usually a moisture problem that will cause other damage as well. So you find it, clean it and fix it.

[Marc]

Apparently you didn't have the credentials, reputation and power of persuasion to gain the confidence of those clients although I agree with what you told them. Never mind them, just keep reading, writing and learning about the topic and, in time, you'll gain the fluency and skill to convince people of the truth. Stay the course.

Marc

[MrsKramer]

Hi Guys,

How has everyone been? As some of you know, I have fought the fight to take the myth out of the mold issue that it has been scientifically proven moldy buildings do not harm.

I believe the above noted false science that was mass marketed in the US public health policy in the early 2000's has been a major problem in the issue which has caused alot of contention, confusion and litigation.

People know that is not true and it causes distrust when they are told that - which causes a push back of over reaction in the other direction. Perfect storm for inspectors and others to get caught in the middle.

I was able to get a Federal GAO audit that has caused it to be federally recognized serious illness is plausible (we're talking water damaged buildings here, not a little mold in the shower). The GAO report has helped alot to stop the extreme positions in both directions and defuse the contention and confusion. (side note: Sometimes people do get really sick and have a right to be alarmed. But that is far from typical) GAO overview:

www.gao.gov/highlights/d08980high.pdf

So anyway, you all would not believe where I have been for daring to get it Federally recognized that it is plausible moldy buildings can and sometimes do cause illness. I am literally facing jail time. Not kidding! Jail time.

Not charged with a crime. The Ca courts are trying to force and coerce me into silence of what they did (that's criminal) and that allowed the "proven not possible" to remain in policy far longer than it should have. Now they are trying to CYA and shut me up.

This is where I am asking for you all's help.

I did an interview on IAQ Radio yesterday. I KNOW I can count on you all to tell it like it is, no holds barred. I am curious to know what you think, what you can understand and what you can't of the matter.

If you are so inclined to give me feedback, click on the "IAQ Radio" link in the below post on Katy's Exposure to listen to the interview. I start talking at about minute 37. You can skip to it by moving your curser over the scale that tracks to which minute you listening.

http://katysexposure.wordpress.com/2012 ... -internet/

The first part of the program might be of interest to you all, too. Its info of various conventions in the cleaning and restoration/remediation industry.

Thanks,

Sharon

PS. How do I get noticed when people reply to posts?

PSS. Dan, you nailed it in your second post. You don't have to test for mold to know you have to clean it up and stop the source of moisture.

Sometimes you do need to professionally test if you are trying to understand other things - depending on the facts and parties of the individual situation and with full knowledge of the limitations of what info testing can and cannot provide. - a story for another day.

[kurt]

Last time, our (my) input was taken completely out of context in your little column; you used my comments inaccurately to support your own positions on the topic.

Folks, beware providing Ms. Kramer sound bites; they might not turn out as you intended.

[MrsKramer]

Kurt,

Emails don't always reflect intent, because there is no voice inflection. I must have been mistaken. Considering I came on this board when there were prior posts of people I had never met before wanting me poked in the eye, etc. I thought we made great strides. What did I take out of context? Do you want something corrected? Let me know.

In the meantime, I am curious to know what you all think of this and what you can understand. The reason I came to you all is because you are a direct bunch, no doubt. AND you don't know anything about this, so you would learn it from this audio. I am looking for feedback and understanding by those who will say it like it is - based on their understanding. I want to know what you can't understand after listening.

Here is the audio. Starts at minute 37, if you are so inclined to listen and comment.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/ta ... terId=1547

Thanks,

Sharon

[freedom88]

I am floored at how corrupt the system is and how deep the roots of money and greed go. To put someone in jail for what should be considered free speech is a violation of Sharon's rights.

The papers MrsKramer speaks about in the above interview are the real "junk science" Some powerful, rich people would like it to look like mold cannot cause people to become severely ill, when in reality it can.

My son was disabled from June 2010 through April 2011 when we discovered mold in our home. We had very high levels of mold in the air so that we were breathing the mold and being poisoned the entire time we were in the home. My son was the sickest in the house, but we were all very sick.

We had been living in the home for 4 years when my son (11 years) became severely fatigued, in constant pain and unable to sleep. He also had stomach troubles where he could not keep food down. He was unable to sleep, had no short term memory, and could no longer read a book and remember what he had read. He went from being an "A" student to being unable to attend school because his white blood cell count was so low and his liver function tests were so high.

During those 4 years, I had been hospitalized 3 times, my husband twice, and my daughter once. My daughter also got nose bleeds and headaches and had behavior problems that were violent (9years)

When we moved out of the home, my family started to get better. We have some remaining health issues that have not gone away although we have been out of the home for 10 months.

Thank God, we have a doctor who looks beyond the false data about mold and is helping to treat the systemic mold and mycotoxins that remain in our bodies even after we removed ourselves from the exposure.

Mold illness is real. Toxic mold is a mold that makes someone sick. There are many molds which can cause sickness beyond allergies and asthma.

I find it appalling that Sharon is being silenced by the courts and the US Chamber of Commerce. Please listen to her interview and lets do whatever we can to get the word out about how mold can be deadly in water damaged buildings with people living in them!

[rkenney]

Heather, if that is your real name, you must be a friend of Sharon's.

While I am certainly glad that your family is in better health, you have provided no concrete information about mold. Merely a frothy emotional appeal about your families difficulties.

What was the level of mold in your previous home; what was the cause; how was it tested; who determined it to be the culprit in your health issues; and how was that determined?

Raising children is always an emotional event, and I can recall many harrowing health issues with the kids. A simple search however brings up a whole page of reasons for low white blood cell count including something as simple as vitamin defficiency. There are at least eight liver function tests a doctor might request and a myriad of results. Nose bleeds, headaches, behavior problems; where is the conclusive proof that mold was the cause.

Your post lacks facts, only circumstances, which do not prove your case.

[elainehipple]

Wow. I didn't realize so many of you were doctors and mold experts! I will be the first to say I knew little about mold a year ago until I got sick from toxic mold in our basement. I have had the urine test to prove I have been poisoned by ochratoxins and trichothecenes from toxic mold. I am on a treatment plan by an M.D. in AZ who specializes in treating mycotoxicosis, as it is formally called. This is not your run of the mill allergy or inflammation. This is pure poisoning. Mycotoxins from stachybotrys and aspergillus mold are used in biological warfare. Look it up. While it's true, most people do not become gravely ill from mold, there are several of us who do. Some docs believe there is a specific gene involved, which I will be getting tested for soon. Problem is, I became sick after two mold remediations in my basement which spread the mycotoxins up into the walls of my house. Because there are no government regulations on removal of toxic mold for the general public, these people can do whatever they like and get away with it. Just know that someday it could be you getting sick like us.

[Bill Kibbel]

Sharon, in her never-ending internet campaign, is now sending her disciples here. It's likely due to the excellent Google placement of TIJ pages.

For those posting here for Sharon's cause, post some proof of your claims or they get deleted.

[freedom88]

I have never met Sharon, nor have I heard her speak until today when I listened to this interview. I would gladly help her if I could. Oh but through the grace of God, go I.

As for facts, the Stachybotrys counts on the second floor were 234,000 per cubic meter. They were as low as 169 per cubic meter on other floors of the house and the control sample (outside) the stachybotrys was "0"

Stachybotrys creates a mycotoxin called trichothecene which has been used in bio warfare. It is deadly and I do believe if we had stayed in that house we would all be dead.

We have a doctor who has confirmed a systemic (throughout the whole body) mold infection and mycotoxin poisoning. He is also the one who told me that my prior hospitilazations, as well as my daughter's and possibly my husband's too, were caused by the mold.

My son was in a wheel chair, unable to walk for 9 months. He had seizures and uncontrollable neurological tics, not unlike those that the LeRoy girls are experiencing. He had 'episodes' where he would stare off into space and we couldn't reach him. I thought at times we were losing him.

I called the NY Department of health three times during this ordeal, begging them to help me find an environmental cause. Even our dog was sick and had gone lame, much like my son.

I discovered the mold myself when I did an ERMI test and then I hired a professional to do the air testing and give me a report of what where the mold was.

I am sorry you are so fixed in your assertions that mold cannot cause severe sickness. You are doing your clients a terrible disservice by not keeping an open mind about this.

[freedom88]

If I post my lab reports, you will likely say they are not worth the paper they are printed on. I have read some other threads on this forum. Am I not correct?

Let's see what happens. You want proof?

See the attached report.

I will repeat. I do not know Sharon. I did not come here because anyone sent me here to defend Sharon. I found this thread and was moved by her story. This could be me.

The corruption, lies and deceit attempting to cover up how devastating mold can be is rampant! Why are you all so sure mold cannot cause sickness?

Download Attachment: plude-lab.pdf

789.88 KB

[Chad Fabry]

I am locking the thread.

We are not physicians, industrial hygienists or mycologists. Researching the effects of mold or any other substance is not what we do.

This forum is for home inspectors; we acknowledge mold as it pertains to structural issues, and I bet a lot of us include verbiage indicating that there is some anecdotal evidence that mold is dangerous to certain individuals.

You may not take over our forum to advance your cause.