New Radiant Control Center

[Chad Fabry]

I've mentioned that I'm installing a staple up radiant system in my old house.

7,000 feet of pex, 5,500 feet of aluminum plates and 70,000 staples later I finally was able to build the mechanical board.

5 Manifolds and 33 loops fed by 5 pumps serving 3 zones.

I just fired up the wood boiler which circulates water through the stainless heat exchanger on the lower left. Hot water on the house side of the heat exchanger is tempered to 130 degrees at the silver mixing valve and then pumped through the loops.

Hopefully, it will work. It's getting kind of chilly.

To save someone the angst of pointing out that SJ cable really isn't appropriate to use as hard wiring for the circulators, I already know. My BX slitter broke on the first cut. This time next year all the wiring.... will look the same.

Who's OC now O'Handley?

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[Richard Moore]

Totally ignoring all your hard work, what's with the blue tape on the ceiling mounted wet-finger voltage detector?

[Bain]

I think it's beautiful, though I have to admit I've never seen one up close and personal.

As for the blue tape, I have a light fixture with a completely cracked base in my basement ceiling and, with the exception of replacing the bulb, I'll likely never touch the thing till it's time to sell my house.

[Chad Fabry]

Totally ignoring all your hard work, what's with the blue tape on the ceiling mounted wet-finger voltage detector?

It's a blue box with a white sticker. There was a compact fluorescent there when I started. Now some of it is in the thrash, some is in my scalp and some is in my lungs.

[kurt]

Nice. Very.

[hausdok]

Jeez,

If we ever go down to Warm U at Watts again we need to haul this obsessive maniac along with us.

Hmm,

Maybe if I fly him out here, lock him in a shop with my Packard, and push food through a sally port for two weeks I can save myself about another two years of toil and sweat. [:-devil]

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Richard Moore]

Maybe if I fly him out here, lock him in a shop with my Packard, and push food through a sally port for two weeks I can save myself about another two years of toil and sweat. [:-devil]

Maybe. Maybe not. Chad has many fetishes. I'd say you had a 50-50 chance of getting either a nicely restored car or a cross between a steam boiler and the DeLorean from Back to the Future.

[randynavarro]

Maybe if I fly him out here, lock him in a shop with my Packard, and push food through a sally port for two weeks I can save myself about another two years of toil and sweat. [:-devil]

Maybe. Maybe not. Chad has many fetishes. I'd say you had a 50-50 chance of getting either a nicely restored car or a cross between a steam boiler and the DeLorean from Back to the Future.

Remember Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?

[randynavarro]

Totally ignoring all your hard work, what's with the blue tape on the ceiling mounted wet-finger voltage detector?

It's a blue box with a white sticker. There was a compact fluorescent there when I started. Now some of it is in the thrash, some is in my scalp and some is in my lungs.

Read an article where they researched the broken fluorescent bulb/mercury thing.

Turns out you get more mercury from 2 oz. of tuna than that inhaled when a fluorescent bulb breaks.

[randynavarro]

Neat-o. Eee-gawds. Great honk!

Questions:

1. Where'd you get that heat exchanger? I've not seen one like that before. And why have one? Are you separating domestic water from heating water?

2. What is everything mounted on? Plywood painted silver?

[Nolan Kienitz]

There you go again Chad.

One helluva job. Never, ever see such here in Texas.

[John Kogel]

Looks great but why not 5 zones, since you have 5 pumps? You cutting corners, having a good enough moment or somethin? No, that can't be it. []

I like flourescents in a trouble light because they're much harder to break than an incandescent bulb. You must have smacked it a good one. I knocked one with a paint roller a couple of weeks ago, and the glass popped out of the socket, and was hanging by 2 wires, but still burning.

[Chad Fabry]

Questions:

1. Where'd you get that heat exchanger? I've not seen one like that before. And why have one? Are you separating domestic water from heating water?

I bought the heat exchanger and almost all the components from www.blueridgecompany.com. It's a stainless steel tube type exchanger rated at 200,000 btu's.

The heat source is a wood fired boiler that is in the basement of a little barn. It is open to atmosphere and lower than the floors of our home. So, the heat exchanger allows for a closed loop inside the house to get water to the second storey and lets a back-up boiler (next project)heat just the water in the home instead of hundreds of gallons in the boiler.

2. What is everything mounted on? Plywood painted silver?

a 2' x 5.5' sheet of 1/8" aluminum plate. That, many of the fittings and most of the copper all started life doing something else. The aluminum is from the control panel of a military mobile missile control center.

Looks great but why not 5 zones, since you have 5 pumps? You cutting corners, having a good enough moment or somethin? No, that can't be it.

The first floor is a fairly contiguous space. There isn't much point in trying to heat one bit and not another.

[davidmcg]

Looks good to me. Seems like we are starting to see more examples of radiant heating these days along with geothermal. I am yet to see one in actual practice outside of trade shows. In this area I know of several homes with it, but I have never been in any of those homes. Just a matter of time as more and more people are trying to become as efficient as they can. Sure wish I had the money, time and education I have now about 20 years ago. If I had of, I would have done radiant heat or geothermal and dumped this forced air gas system.

Yea, I like your project, you did good. Right down to the scalvaging parts from other equipment. You did your homework well young man. Big thumbs up from me.[:-thumbu]

[Chad Fabry]

Here's some advice: don't take advice, do your own research.

When I ordered all my supplies from Blueridge Company last March, I ordered a 60 plate heat exchanger. The guy that took my order said "well, you figured everything out perfect except I think you should step up to the tube-in-shell exchanger. It's more durable and it will never get clogged like the plate exchangers can."

So, I ponied up $730 bucks for the shiny thing in the lower left corner and it doesn't work. My boiler water passes through the exchanger and goes from 160 degrees to about 154 degrees. The radiant water enters the exchanger @ 75 and leaves it @ 88 degrees.

It turns out that the tube-in-shell unit is designed for high volume low temp rise, more specifically, for heating pools or sidewalk de-icing.

Blueridge Company declined the opportunity to help me out, so my shiny heat exchanger is on ebay for $500 and I just spent another $500 for a plate exchanger from a different company.

I'll let you know how it works when I get it and install it on Friday.

[kurt]

That's good advice.

ouch.

[Charlie R]

Very impressive, I like it.

[Chad Fabry]

I installed the new heat exchanger last Friday. It's mild- in the 20's and 30's- so I have been running my boiler at about 130 degrees.

The boiler water enters the new 80 plate exchanger at 130 or so and exits at 100.

The radiant water enters the exchanger at 75 and exits at 100 even with all 5 pumps running.

My floors are toasty warm- don't buy me slippers for Christmas.

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[Marc]

The radiant water enters the exchanger at 75 and exits at 100 even with all 5 pumps running.

That comes out to 12,500 btu/hr for each gallon per minute of water flow.

Marc

[Chad Fabry]

Show the math, please. That's something I should know how to do.

[Richard Moore]

I get 12,525 using slightly rounded figures.

8.35 (lbs in a US gallon of water)

x 25 (your temp gain in F)

x 60 (minutes per hour)

[Marc]

I get 12,525 using slightly rounded figures.

8.35 (lbs in a US gallon of water)

x 25 (your temp gain in F)

x 60 (minutes per hour)

That's basically it.

There are also btu/lb figures for wood available on the net that may allow you to get an idea of the efficiency of the entire system i.e. the % of btu's invested (expressed in lbs of wood) that actually ends up within the conditioned space.

Douglas fir is approx 8,800 btu per 'oven-dry' pound.

The math is nearly as simple.

That is if Mr. O will allow it.[]

Marc

[hausdok]

I get 12,525 using slightly rounded figures.

8.35 (lbs in a US gallon of water)

x 25 (your temp gain in F)

x 60 (minutes per hour)

That's basically it.

There are also btu/lb figures for wood available on the net that may allow you to get an idea of the efficiency of the entire system i.e. the % of btu's invested (expressed in lbs of wood) that actually ends up within the conditioned space.

Douglas fir is approx 8,800 btu per 'oven-dry' pound.

The math is nearly as simple.

That is if Mr. O will allow it.[]

Marc

I looked at that formula Rich put up and I started getting nauseous and light headed.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[kurt]

I'm jealous.

Sounds really nice, comfy. There's nothing better than warm toes in the middle of winter.

[plummen]

Nice work! [][][][][]