Clarification on CSST bonding

[In-Depth]

This is a section of CSST serving a gas fireplace. The rest of the gas piping is black iron and copper.

This CSST should be bonded to the metal water piping, right? Or is it only when used as a main supply line and then it's bonded at the closet point of entry to the house?

Thanks,

Jim

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[Richard Moore]

If I'm reading your post correctly, you seem to be suggesting that the length of CSST would need extra bonding(?). As long as the rest of the gas piping is already bonded in some way, you should not need any additional jumpers, etc. The connection at the red shut-off maintains a continuous path for grounding.

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong)

[John Dirks Jr]

This from Gastite should explain it. Whatever the manufacturer of the CSST in the picture, the rules are basically the same.

It calls for the following:

"a single bond connection shall be made downstream of the individual gas meter and upstream of any CSST connection"

So, it all depends on how things are laid out whether more than one bonding jumper is needed.

http://www.gastite.com/include/language ... 010-01.pdf

[Richard Moore]

This from Gastite should explain it. Whatever the manufacturer of the CSST in the picture, the rules are basically the same.

It calls for the following:

"a single bond connection shall be made downstream of the individual gas meter and upstream of any CSST connection"

So, it all depends on how things are laid out whether more than one bonding jumper is needed.

http://www.gastite.com/include/language ... 010-01.pdf

John, the bolded emphasis at the Gas-tite PDF is on the single bond connection. As in..."For single and multi-family structures, a single bond connection shall be made downstream of the individual gas meter for each housing unit and upstream of any CSST connection." That is not saying there should be one downstream of the meter and others upstream of any CSST. It's saying there should be one that satisfies both requirements.

[John Dirks Jr]

This from Gastite should explain it. Whatever the manufacturer of the CSST in the picture, the rules are basically the same.

It calls for the following:

"a single bond connection shall be made downstream of the individual gas meter and upstream of any CSST connection"

So, it all depends on how things are laid out whether more than one bonding jumper is needed.

http://www.gastite.com/include/language ... 010-01.pdf

John, the bolded emphasis at the Gas-tite PDF is on the single bond connection. As in..."For single and multi-family structures, a single bond connection shall be made downstream of the individual gas meter for each housing unit and upstream of any CSST connection." That is not saying there should be one downstream of the meter and others upstream of any CSST. It's saying there should be one that satisfies both requirements.

I see. The placement of the bonding clamp is the all important factor then.

[manhattan42]

This is a section of CSST serving a gas fireplace. The rest of the gas piping is black iron and copper.

This CSST should be bonded to the metal water piping, right? Or is it only when used as a main supply line and then it's bonded at the closet point of entry to the house?

Thanks,

Jim

Click to Enlarge

54.39?KB

WRONG!

CSST gas pipe is required to be 'bonded' from the gas pipe BEFORE IT ENTERS THE BUILDING to either the:

---Grounding Electrode

---Grounding Electrode Conductor

---Grounding Buss in the Panel

Conductive WATER PIPE needs to be BONDED "anywhere" in the metallic water system.

If you need "Code" quotes from the Fuel Gas and/or Electric Codes, just ask, and I will gladly supply them....

[Bill Kibbel]

WRONG!

CSST gas pipe is required to be 'bonded' from the gas pipe BEFORE IT ENTERS THE BUILDING to either the:

---Grounding Electrode

---Grounding Electrode Conductor

---Grounding Buss in the Panel

Conductive WATER PIPE needs to be BONDED "anywhere" in the metallic water system.

If you need "Code" quotes from the Fuel Gas and/or Electric Codes, just ask, and I will gladly supply them....

Okay. Show us where it specifically states "CSST gas pipe is required to be 'bonded' from the gas pipe BEFORE IT ENTERS THE BUILDING". I'd be quite interested since I've only seen thousands bonded to the grounding electrode system on the interior of all the buildings.

[hausdok]

Little quick with the code cites aren't you?

This is a branch line that feeds a fireplace only; it is not a CSST system. Essentially, it's a connector and it's already well within the boundary of the building. The primary piping from the meter is the wrought iron and it is already bonded somewhere in that house to the water piping and from there back to the panel. The CCST was bonded as soon as it was connected to the existing system.

The cite these guys have been using and you are talking about is when CSST is used as the primary service pipe into the house from the meter and needs to be bonded to the service grounding electrode downstream from the meter but upstream from the first valve and before it enters the house. #6 ga. cable, I believe.

[hausdok]

Hi Bill,

I think it's 310.1.1 but it doesn't say before it enters the building, it says "at the point where it enters the building."

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Bill Kibbel]

Hi Bill,

I think it's 310.1.1 but it doesn't say before it enters the building, it says "at the point where it enters the building."

That's exactly my point - he's wrong again.

Have you seen 2012?

"(310.1.1) CSST.

Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system. The bonding jumper shall connect to a metallic pipe or fitting between the point of delivery and the first downstream CSST fitting. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent. Gas piping systems that contain one or more segments of CSST shall be bonded in accordance with this section".

[Gastite]

We noticed this thread and just wanted to comment regarding bonding. Bill Kibbel is correct in quoting the 2012 National Fuel Gas Code. A single bond clamp is attached to the fuel gas piping system down stream / after the outlet of the gas meter and up stream or prior to the first CSST segment of the system. Please feel free to visit www.Gastite.com and or call 800-662-0208 for further information / clarification regarding the bonding of gas piping systems containing (standard yellow) CSST.

[Les]

David,

Thanks for the response.

My Gastite training did not include anything about bonding. Of course that was in 2004 when you had to be "certified" to buy or install Gastite.

Now any skilled homeowner can purchase "gastite" and install it nearly everywhere. I often see small sections of it improperly installed as appliance whips, mains, feeders, etc. Can I be comfortable not reporting the following?: Meter, 3/4" iron, nom Gastite, 1/2"iron, nom Gastite, 3/8" galv and so on, if the first 3/4" iron is bonded?

[Jim Katen]

We noticed this thread and just wanted to comment regarding bonding. Bill Kibbel is correct in quoting the 2012 National Fuel Gas Code. A single bond clamp is attached to the fuel gas piping system down stream / after the outlet of the gas meter and up stream or prior to the first CSST segment of the system. Please feel free to visit www.Gastite.com and or call 800-662-0208 for further information / clarification regarding the bonding of gas piping systems containing (standard yellow) CSST.

Thanks, David.

I'm curious to know if you're aware of Oregon's position on bonding of CSST as stated here:

Download Attachment: electrical_CSST.pdf

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In particular, I'd like to know what Gastite's position is regarding this decision. In particular, what effect does this decision have on Gastite's warranty and liability on Oregon installations?

[randynavarro]

I'm not registering the differences between bonding CSST vs. bonding any metal gas pipe system.

If I have a combo rigid pipe gas line AND CSST, should I see 2 bonding conductors?

I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but I can' find it. . . .

[Bill Kibbel]

I'm not registering the differences between bonding CSST vs. bonding any metal gas pipe system.

If I have a combo rigid pipe gas line AND CSST, should I see 2 bonding conductors?

I know I'm probably missing something obvious here but I can' find it. . . .

There's only one difference. When CSST is installed as any part of the gas distribution, the gas piping system must be DIRECTLY bonded to the grounding electrode system.

[John Dirks Jr]

The Gastite instructions say down stream of the meter and up stream of any CSST.

What if the house is on propane and there is no meter? Should the bonding clamp be connected as close as practicably possible to the fuel source, IE closer to the propane tank?

In a house I inspected today, a propane tank was at one end of a the house. The bond clamp was connected all the way at the other end of the house at a propane gas fueled water heater in the garage. It just so happens the electric panel was also in the garage, thus a short run of bonding conductor.

Should the bonding conductor begin closer to the propane tank? As it is now, the tank is the farthest thing from the bonding clamp.

[Jim Katen]

The Gastite instructions say down stream of the meter and up stream of any CSST.

What if the house is on propane and there is no meter? Should the bonding clamp be connected as close as practicably possible to the fuel source, IE closer to the propane tank?

In a house I inspected today, a propane tank was at one end of a the house. The bond clamp was connected all the way at the other end of the house at a propane gas fueled water heater in the garage. It just so happens the electric panel was also in the garage, thus a short run of bonding conductor.

Should the bonding conductor begin closer to the propane tank? As it is now, the tank is the farthest thing from the bonding clamp.

If you want the "requirements" for these things, you're going to have to get them from Gastite.

However I suspect that the performance of the bonding connection has absolutely nothing to do with the location of the fuel source. If there's any logic to their requirement at all, it's probably to get the bonding connetion closer to the point where the gas service comes out of the ground.

[John Dirks Jr]

I spoke with Gastite on the phone today. The clamp in a propane system should be as close as possible after the regulator. In the house in question, it would be at the first black iron nipple and prior to any CSST. That means it should be done at the other end of the house near the propane tank as I was questioning.

This means my calling the bonding at the WH in the garage as wrong was a proper response. Of course, the "Master" electrician said I was wrong.

I spoke with the Gastite tech about the lack of clarity with regard to (at the meter) in the technical bulletin that is linked in this thread. He said they would review the bulletin and make amendments if they deem fit.

It will be interesting to see if amendments are actually made as a result of my conversation with them.

[John Dirks Jr]

From the email discussion regarding the wording in the TB and how it would apply to propane systems, the rep at Gastite responded (in part) as follows;

Gastite's bonding instruction can be found at http://www.gastite.com/include/language ... 010-01.pdf

This requirement applies to all fuel gases that standard CSST products are used for, including natural gas and propane gas service. To clarify the wording in this technical bulletin, "downstream of an individual gas meter", in a propane installation would equate to "downstream of the second stage regulator". The full sentence regarding clamp location reads "downstream of the individual gas meter for each housing unit and upstream of any CSST connection".