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New panel

Chad Fabry

By Chad Fabry
in Electrical Forum

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Richard Moore Advanced Member

Richard Moore

Posted
Posted

Nice work, Chad. Were you inspired by other very neat boxes you have inspected?

I re-wired my whole house (from KT) almost 20 years ago, including a new 200-amp Square-D QO panel and a sub for the workshop. Sadly, this was before I had seen some of the really tidy panels and wiring as an HI. I don't have any actual "defects", but mine makes a rodents habitat look neat. I'm too embarrassed to post pictures.

Bill Kibbel Advanced Member

Bill Kibbel

Posted
Posted

My current panels look like they're full of spaghetti. I didn't even put the covers on for 6 years. It's been a long time since psych class, but I think the opposite of anal-retentive (Chad) is anal-expulsive (Me).

Kyle Kubs Member

Kyle Kubs

Posted
Posted

Schweeet! Nice job Chad. I love the cable routing, nicely done. Don't envy you having done all the lighting & receptacles in #12 wire... My fingertips hurt just looking at it.

I've been sneering at the electrical mess in my basement and panel for 9 years now but just couldn't justify spending time on that while bigger fires burned. After the storm last week had us without power, I started wiring a generator into the panel. Soon as I had to move a few wires to free up a spaces on the terminal bar, I lost control and just started pulling everything out and cleaning up the rats nest. Turned the power on and went upstairs, my wife says "I thought it was only going to take 10 minutes..."[:-censore

hausdok Advanced Member

hausdok

Posted
Posted

I'm beginning to think we need to replace Chad's avatar with the Energizer Bunny. This guy has always got something going on.

Nice job, Chad!

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

manhattan42 Starting Member

manhattan42

Posted
Posted

Where are the required AFCI breakers?

"210.12 Arc- Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.

(A) Definition: Arc- Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection (AFCI). A device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.

2008 National Electrical code NFPA 70 210.12 requires the following areas to have arc fault protection: all 15 and 20 ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling units.

- family room

- dining rooms

- living rooms

- parlors

- libraries

- dens

- bedrooms

- sunrooms

- recreation rooms

- closets

- hallways

- or similar rooms or areas

This includes the lights, outlets, and smoke detectors

Area that don?t require arc fault protection:

- kitchens

- bathrooms

- outdoors

- unfinished basements

Basically any area that requires GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) do not require arc fault protection. "

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The box in the upper right appears to be a transfer switch for a generator.

Chad Fabry Advanced Member

Chad Fabry

Posted
  • Author
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Neato keen. Makes me wanna do something.

What's in the gray metal box with the red lettering? Upper right in the pic.

It's a pump controller. We have plenty of water but the spring produces only about 3 gallons a minute. We store 400 gallons, the spring pump is controlled by a float in the storage tank. When the float calls for water, the pump pumps until there isn't any water in the spring reservoir. The pump controller sees the current demand drop so it knows the spring is out of water It then shuts the pump off for 15 minutes. And so it goes until the tanks are full again.

manhattan42 Starting Member

manhattan42

Posted
Posted

AFCIs are required for 'new circuits', even if in existing construction.

The question is: was only the panel replaced?

If so, then no AFCI breakers are required.

If the house was rewired, (as it appears to have been) then all 'new circuits' require AFCI protection in compliance with NEC 210.12.

Chad Fabry Advanced Member

Chad Fabry

Posted
  • Author
Posted

AFCIs are required for 'new circuits', even if in existing construction.

The question is: was only the panel replaced?

If so, then no AFCI breakers are required.

If the house was rewired, (as it appears to have been) then all 'new circuits' require AFCI protection in compliance with NEC 210.12.

Just the kitchen and bathroom circuits are new. Everything else was wired in 2010.

manhattan42 Starting Member

manhattan42

Posted
Posted

"Just the kitchen and bathroom circuits are new. Everything else was wired in 2010."

At the very least then, all rewired bedroom circuits in 2010 would have required AFCI protection under the old 2005 (NFPA-70) NEC which was in effect in in NY through December 2010....

So you STILL need to install AFCIs on all your bedroom power, bedroom lighting, bedroom smoke detector and other circuits in your bedrooms to be code compliant....

Sorry.

Chad Fabry Advanced Member

Chad Fabry

Posted
  • Author
Posted
So you STILL need to install AFCIs on all your bedroom power, bedroom lighting, bedroom smoke detector and other circuits in your bedrooms to be code compliant....

Sorry.

I am enjoying this conversation a bit too much.

If you were my AHJ or electrical inspector I'd direct your attention to the 6 gauge copper rope on the left of the panel. It feeds a sub with two lighting circuits and four bedroom circuits. In addition to the 38 circuits in the panel in the photo, are 8 circuits in a sub panel. I'd take a picture of it so you can sleep tonight but my wife painted the non-compliant cabinet door shut and I don't feel like messing with it this morning.

Welcome to the board.

Jim Port Member

Jim Port

Posted
Posted

While the work is certainly neat, I see NM cables too close to the floor boards, possibly conductors too small to be re-identified with tape, and also a receptacle that may limit the required work space if an appliance is installed in front of the panel.

I also would not consider that service panel to be as close as practical to the point of entrance of the service cable. The uneven floor surface may also be an issue. Is the drain pipe behind the plane of the panel? If not it would also be an issue.

If those are the grounding conductors leaving the bottom of the panel, it would have been better with sweeping bends instead of hard corners. Ideally they should be as straight as possible.

Straps on the PVC also seem to be lacking.

manhattan42 Starting Member

manhattan42

Posted
Posted

So you STILL need to install AFCIs on all your bedroom power, bedroom lighting, bedroom smoke detector and other circuits in your bedrooms to be code compliant....

Sorry.

I am enjoying this conversation a bit too much.

If you were my AHJ or electrical inspector I'd direct your attention to the 6 gauge copper rope on the left of the panel. It feeds a sub with two lighting circuits and four bedroom circuits. In addition to the 38 circuits in the panel in the photo, are 8 circuits in a sub panel. I'd take a picture of it so you can sleep tonight but my wife painted the non-compliant cabinet door shut and I don't feel like messing with it this morning.

Welcome to the board.

If the AFCIs are protecting the required circuits in a subpanel, then there is no complaint from me.

I just found it odd not seeing any AFCIs in what is really an extraordinary installation.

But thanks for the photos and the welcome.

But watch out, I just might be your Electrical Inspector or AHJ! [:-slaphap [:-magnify

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