Electrical renovations made difficult and pricey

[ejager]

So I just saw an ad for electrical outlets without coverplates... think drywall flush with circular receptacles.

Trying to wrap my head around all the ways that this could go wrong, though if I show it to my wife, I am sure we are going to have some in the new renovations coming up and I can find out first hand.

Though at $75 per receptacle and another $75 for the mounting plate, I am pretty sure its outside the budget til mass acceptance and production comes online. (I assumed the prices on the web site were for the box of ten... not $750 for each peice)

http://www.bocci.ca/collection/22/product-line/22-2-5/

[Marc]

So I just saw an ad for electrical outlets without coverplates... think drywall flush with circular receptacles.

Trying to wrap my head around all the ways that this could go wrong, though if I show it to my wife, I am sure we are going to have some in the new renovations coming up and I can find out first hand.

Though at $75 per receptacle and another $75 for the mounting plate, I am pretty sure its outside the budget til mass acceptance and production comes online. (I assumed the prices on the web site were for the box of ten... not $750 for each peice)

A total of eight screws on that cover plate. Somehow I still think cracks will eventually show up along the perimeter of the plate.

Marc

[davidmcg]

A total of eight screws on that cover plate. Somehow I still think cracks will eventually show up along the perimeter of the plate.

Marc

Where are you seeing the screws? On the picture as displayed here there are no screws present.

[Jim Katen]

A total of eight screws on that cover plate. Somehow I still think cracks will eventually show up along the perimeter of the plate.

Marc

Where are you seeing the screws? On the picture as displayed here there are no screws present.

I think he's talking about drywall screws. If you bed them in hot mud and the wall framing behind them is solid, they'd be fine. It would be nice if they came with little covers that could protect the receptacle until the mudding & painting were complete.

[Richard Moore]

It would be nice if they came with little covers that could protect the receptacle until the mudding & painting were complete.

Looks like they thought of that.

http://www.bocci.ca/assets/TechSpecs/En ... lation.pdf

[ericwlewis]

A total of eight screws on that cover plate. Somehow I still think cracks will eventually show up along the perimeter of the plate.

Marc

Where are you seeing the screws? On the picture as displayed here there are no screws present.

I think he's talking about drywall screws. If you bed them in hot mud and the wall framing behind them is solid, they'd be fine. It would be nice if they came with little covers that could protect the receptacle until the mudding & painting were complete.

What do you mean by "hot mud"? Are you referring to setting type mud?

I have found that taping corner bead, which would be similar to this product, with fiberglass tape and using setting type mud on the first coat stops cracks every time.[:-thumbu]

[Douglas Hansen]

A very interesting product.

The statement that the product is "approved to UL standards by CSA" is very misleading. A correct translation is "This product is not listed by UL. It has not been found to be in conformity with UL standards, and its use does not comply with NEC 406.3(A) which requires receptacles to be listed."

[gtblum]

I think I saw one of those a couple of months ago.

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Maybe it was just Mr. Bill

[ejager]

If it has a CSA logo, it was tested to the same standards as UL, it was just done a little further north. [;-xmas] <= (That's a toque!)

The CSA and the UL have many long standinging memorandums of agreement, and a long standing Mutual Component Acceptance Program to the point now that the two marks are equally valid.

http://www.csa-international.org/who_accepts_csa/

[John Kogel]

Please make them go away. []

If anyone really needs to know more about the Vancouver, BC, Canada company that has started producing these nightmare devices, you can read all about their courtyard with a tree and the glass blowing and sand casting facilities here.

http://www.bocci.ca/about/bocci-2/

"Even though our pieces focus on the more emotional, irrational and romantic shades of the contemporary design spectrum, we are deeply committed to rigorous and intelligent execution."

Every time I have to carve thru layers of plaster and paint to get the cover off of an electrical panel, Rigorous execution indeed, I will put a curse upon this Bocci Corporation, named after a marbles game played with bowling balls. []

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39.85 KB Had a tough nut to crack this AM.

[Jim Katen]

. . . What do you mean by "hot mud"? Are you referring to setting type mud?

I have found that taping corner bead, which would be similar to this product, with fiberglass tape and using setting type mud on the first coat stops cracks every time.[:-thumbu]

Yes. Hot mud is setting-type compound such as Silverset 20 and its ilk. I thought the term was pretty common -- we used to use it back east and it's very common in the west. How do the tradesmen in IN refer to it?

[ejager]

We often call it concrete fill, or by a trade name, Fast-set.

[Douglas Hansen]

If it has a CSA logo, it was tested to the same standards as UL, it was just done a little further north. [;-xmas] <= (That's a toque!)

The CSA and the UL have many long standinging memorandums of agreement, and a long standing Mutual Component Acceptance Program to the point now that the two marks are equally valid.

http://www.csa-international.org/who_accepts_csa/

Follow through to the "certification marks" link in your link above. You will see that what this company is putting on the product is not the listing mark for something that is listed for the U.S. You might also look in the UL White Book for the examples of the mark attached to products listed for both Canada and the U.S. Reciprocity on products is case-by-case, not a blanket "approval." An example of something else that has a CSA mark that isn't allowed in the U.S. would be Federal Pioneer breakers.

The other tell-tale sign is that they say it is "UL approved." A listing is not an approval, and UL does not allow the word "approved" to be used in that context. Next is that it doesn't use the version of the UL symbol that is present when UL has evaluated something. The U is not on the same line as the L in a legitimate marking.

This thing is not listed and should not be allowed in the U.S. I am visiting UL next week on other business, and will bring this up with them. If they say they are happy with this, I will let you know, though I expect that won't be their response.

A similar product line, "designer faceplates," were removed by changes in the 2008 NEC (elimination of exception 2 to 406.4D). The concern there was whether a faceplate could prevent full insertion of the plug. It might be a concern here too, since the final depth from the adjacent wall face depends upon the drywall install.

[ericwlewis]

. . . What do you mean by "hot mud"? Are you referring to setting type mud?

I have found that taping corner bead, which would be similar to this product, with fiberglass tape and using setting type mud on the first coat stops cracks every time.[:-thumbu]

Yes. Hot mud is setting-type compound such as Silverset 20 and its ilk. I thought the term was pretty common -- we used to use it back east and it's very common in the west. How do the tradesmen in IN refer to it?

We call it fast setting. Interesting that you call it hot because we've noticed that the lower the set #, the warmer it is when it's drying or in the mud pan.