Concrete stairs

[palmettoinspect]

I need some help with this set of stairs. I know it’s a mess as you can see that from the pictures but I’m trying to find some literature about concrete formed steps. Everything I run across has the steps backfilled with debris or dirt then the concrete formed on top. I cannot find anything about forms built in place with no support underneath. Basically the stairs consist of concrete forms built over a perimeter concrete block foundation with not support underneath the steps. I can see that rebar was used in the steps. What are your opinions?

Does anyone have any literature about building concrete formed steps like this or is this just completely wrong? You comments are appreciated.

I can see the obvious: treads are too small where the steps turn, poor drainage and water pooling on steps, the junction box under the steps, the top landing built over wood without the proper drainage underneath, the finish cracking, the handrail heights and attachments, the foundation straps, etc.

Thanks,

Kiel

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[kurt]

My 90 year old bungalow stairs are (sort of) built that way (without the wood landing). I see hundreds of old townhouses in the city built that way.

The wood landing is a total mess; it'll rot out quickly.

The stair construction could be fine if it was reinforced satisfactorily.

[Jim Katen]

I need some help with this set of stairs. I know it’s a mess as you can see that from the pictures but I’m trying to find some literature about concrete formed steps. Everything I run across has the steps backfilled with debris or dirt then the concrete formed on top. I cannot find anything about forms built in place with no support underneath. Basically the stairs consist of concrete forms built over a perimeter concrete block foundation with not support underneath the steps. I can see that rebar was used in the steps. What are your opinions?

If you ever have occasion to remove a set of concrete steps that was cast over earth fill, you'll find that the earth isn't supporting anything. It settled away from the concrete within the first few years after the concrete was placed. Most of those steps that you see are self-supporting - except, of course, for the ones that fail early on because they were crappily constructed.

Does anyone have any literature about building concrete formed steps like this or is this just completely wrong? You comments are appreciated.

No literature, sorry. I helped to build a few when I was quite young. We just threw in whatever we had around for reinforcement: rebar, if it was available, wire mesh (or more likely wired field fencing), plumbing pipes, threaded rod, and, of course, the obligatory beer cans. It worked. I don't recommend it, but it worked. (Several years ago, I crawled under a porch slab that had a car axle embedded in it.)

I can see the obvious: treads are too small where the steps turn, poor drainage and water pooling on steps, the junction box under the steps, the top landing built over wood without the proper drainage underneath, the finish cracking, the handrail heights and attachments, the foundation straps, etc.

Thanks,

Kiel

The stairway in your pictures is a mess. But lack of support under the concrete isn't one of the problems there. At least I don't see any evidence of it being a problem.

[John Kogel]

Any time I see concrete stairs here, the forms are pulled out and the space under the stairs is used for cool storage. Kind of a mini bomb shelter/ wine cellar under there. Sometimes they will sink on one side or tip out away from the house, but they generally stay in one piece.

I can't say for sure about that mess you've got there, though.

If the concrete on the landing is just a skim coat, it will crack when the wood starts to rot.

[kurt]

Any time I see concrete stairs here, the forms are pulled out and the space under the stairs is used for cool storage. Kind of a mini bomb shelter/ wine cellar under there.

That's exactly how mine are.

[palmettoinspect]

Thanks for the info guys. I informed my client about the mess along with what seems like a million other issues. As always your opinions are appreciated.

Kiel

[hausdok]

Go the menu bar above and choose library. Now choose downloads and scroll down to FM5-428 - the US Army Concrete and Masonry Field Manua. Turn to page 4-46 Figure 4-15 for diagrams of how to form up a set of stairs.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[palmettoinspect]

Go the menu bar above and choose library. Now choose downloads and scroll down to FM5-428 - the US Army Concrete and Masonry Field Manua. Turn to page 4-46 Figure 4-15 for diagrams of how to form up a set of stairs.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Thanks!