Advice for Repairs on Joists

[Gordon]

Hello everyone. A friend of mine has this great St. Patrick's Day party every year, and invites alot of people-kind of an open house invite. The problem is, he and his wife moved into a house last year that needs work. I'm going to be helping him get this work done before St. Patty's (he has fears of people falling through the floor), because he has 5 joists that have been notched at least half way up, to accommodate the gas fuel run, which I'll be re-routing for him next weekend. Question: what is the best way to repair these joists, without having to replace them all? I imagine some type of metal brace could do the trick, but I'm uncertain of what type to get. I appreciate the future input.

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[chrisprickett]

While I'm not an engineer, and will disavow any responsibilty if you all fall through the floor and die, it give it a shot:

Option 1: Sister a same size joist the entire length of the notch joist (this may not be practical)

Option 2: Add a "flitch plate". A 1/4" steel plate roughly the same width as the affected joists, with pre-drilled staggered holes. Run it about 6' out from the affected area. Installed it like a sandwich between the affected joist, and a 6' 2x of the same dimension. Through bolt through all three. Do this to all the notched joists.

[Jim Katen]

Originally posted by Gordon

. . . Question: what is the best way to repair these joists, without having to replace them all? I imagine some type of metal brace could do the trick, but I'm uncertain of what type to get. I appreciate the future input.

Run a girder under the notched joists. Support it with posts and nice broad footings.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Brian G]

I'm with Jim. Nothing beats direct bearing.

Brian G.

[Gordon]

We already have a joist to replace, and it's not one of the ones notched out. Replacing these other 5 isn't practical though. Sometime in the future, the basement is going to be refinished, and the idea of support bearings is also impractical, though I agree, the best option. I'll run over all the options again with him, and let him decide.

I appreciate all the info! Thanks!

[Brooks J. Peterman]

I like Chris' "flitch plate" idea.

You could gusset them with heavy plywood glued and nailed from the bearing to 4' to 6' behind the notches. Similar to the flitch plates but you don't have to find them or have them made. Engineered I joists are repaired like this all the time.

If done correctly, relocating the gas pipe may not be necessary.

(edited to add comment)

[kurt]

Yeah, girder w/ screw jacks as a temporary brace; bsmt. floors aren't any good for long term bearing, but they work fine as temporary footings. When you get around to the final engineering, laminated veneer lumber installed in some form or another would provide you all the strength you needed.

As an aside, remember the horrific porch collapse in Chicago, July 2003? There is now testimony presented by 3 seperate sources that has been corroborated by additional witnesses that there were 2 individuals "jumping up & down & making the porch sway" in order to make people scream & be scared. So, it wasn't just the 150 people on the porch; there was also a couple lunatics jumping up & down, thinking it was funny.

[Gordon]

Yeah, I had read that this weekend also Kurt! I had this mental image of some screwballs with a beer in their hand, trying to scare others of the opposite gender. Thats' what my buddy & I had visions of, though he doesn't have "too many" nut-balls for friends (myself included, hopefully!!). What I find interesting in that collapse story, is the family of one of those screwballs is trying to sue the city. The blame game keeps on rolling! Thanks!

[Steven Hockstein]

If there are wires or pipes passing through the joists, another option is to install steel angles along the bottoms of the joists.

[Rob Amaral]

A load-bearing 'wall' that is actually part of a shelving system could be incorporated at that area as well. A wall for a cabinet system/storage system may just be easier. Box off that corner for storage.

[chrisprickett]

Originally posted by Rob Amaral

A load-bearing 'wall' that is actually part of a shelving system could be incorporated at that area as well. A wall for a cabinet system/storage system may just be easier. Box off that corner for storage.

That's actually a pretty good idea...

[Rob Amaral]

The LB wall is a good idea for a lot of issues. Often I'm looking at old 2 families going condo with beam issues. Instead of replacing the beam or posts, simply pump in a LB wall and divide the basement in half. Two birds, one stone. ..

Works great at undersized basement stairwell trimmers also...

[rfarrell]

A few years back I had a situation where the plumber notched a series of second floor joists for a waste pipe. He paid for the engineering and repairs. The engineer speced 3/4 plywood full height both sides lagged and glued. The gussets either three or four feet in length and centered on the notch. That was a compression repair but I think you would find an engineer would approve something like that for this repair. The plumber re-installed the waste pipe through the gussets, also approved by the engineer.

[Gordon]

Thanks for all the input gents!