Another shower pan

[kurt]

I ran the water for about 30 minutes, nothing. Then I started to think.

The house was about 60 degrees. A quick thermostatic check of the water temp said about 60 degrees.

I went upstairs, switched it to all hot water, waited about 10 minutes, then took the shot. The yellow line is the water; normally, you're looking for cooler, this time is was warmer.

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The realtor was really getting pissed that I let the water run so long, and when I changed the temperature and insisted on continuing to run the water, she hit the roof.

But it was nothing compared to the look on her face when I nailed it.

[Robert Jones]

Wow. Was the ceiling wall damaged or showing effect yet?

[kurt]

Nope. That's what's amazing. Although, when I stuck the Protimeter in to measure and verify, water started seeping out the pinholes. Oooops......

It would have eventually, I suppose.

[Rocon]

Nice catch!

[Jerry Lozier]

With no other stains on the ceiling to indicate a leak... wow impressive. I'm sure that realtor would have loved to call you two weeks after possession with 'how did you miss this'

[Terence McCann]

With no other stains on the ceiling to indicate a leak... wow impressive. I'm sure that realtor would have loved to call you two weeks after possession with 'how did you miss this'

Ain't that the truth.

[Mark P]

I'm sure that realtor would have loved to call you two weeks after possession with 'how did you miss this'

AMEN!

[David Meiland]

How is that leak NOT coming out around the nearest can?

[kurt]

How is that leak NOT coming out around the nearest can?

I have no idea whatsoever. I can only think there was enough pitch to take the water down the seam to the exterior wall, where it sheeted down into the (finished) basement. All I know is what the picture shows, and the drips out of the pinholes when I put the Protimeter to it.

I know it would show up eventually in the form of nail pops, delam'ed tape, sags, or something. It'd have to.

[Neal Lewis]

So does the scale at the right accurately give the temp of the three areas of leakage? And come you can't see the drain line in the ceiling?

[mgbinspect]

How is that leak NOT coming out around the nearest can?

I have no idea whatsoever. I can only think there was enough pitch to take the water down the seam to the exterior wall, where it sheeted down into the (finished) basement. All I know is what the picture shows, and the drips out of the pinholes when I put the Protimeter to it.

I know it would show up eventually in the form of nail pops, delam'ed tape, sags, or something. It'd have to.

Couldn't it be that the leaks are so slight that an average shower would never produce enough water to actually flow, and rather just dampen the drywall? Sometimes the problem isn't the integrety of the pan material, but rather the pan installation - turned up edges of pan not tall enough.

[Jim Katen]

. . . I know it would show up eventually in the form of nail pops, delam'ed tape, sags, or something. It'd have to.

I've found a whole bunch of leaking showers that seem to have been leaking for years with absolutely no outward indications. With these slow leaks, a couple of 10-minute showers (normal use) just aren't long enough for these leaks to show up on the bottom side of the drywall. The wetting time/drying time ratio just isn't great enough. Keep the shower wet for an hour or two, though, & the leaks become abundantly clear.

Since getting IR, have you found any tiled shower seats that *don't* leak. I haven't.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[mgbinspect]

. . . I know it would show up eventually in the form of nail pops, delam'ed tape, sags, or something. It'd have to.

I've found a whole bunch of leaking showers that seem to have been leaking for years with absolutely no outward indications. With these slow leaks, a couple of 10-minute showers (normal use) just aren't long enough for these leaks to show up on the bottom side of the drywall. The wetting time/drying time ratio just isn't great enough. Keep the shower wet for an hour or two, though, & the leaks become abundantly clear.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Similarly, I used to use one of those little rubber collars, at the shower drain, to flood and test shower pans. I finally concluded it was counter-productive. Several times there was no manifestation of a shower pan failure until I was off site and it then became something I allegedly missed, after I had suggested the pan appeared to be functioning as intended.

[kurt]

Since getting IR, have you found any tiled shower seats that *don't* leak. I haven't.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Only a couple out of hundreds. It's almost a given with these side sprayer turbo showers.

It's always pan liner defects. Not high enough, not up over the bench, not sealed at the seams, not wrapped up over the threshold and out onto the floor, not clamped to the drain receptor, etc., etc., etc......On the one's where I've been retained to monitor repairs, the installer will insist it's not the liner right up until we get down to the liner, where it's always the liner.

One time, we actually found a pile of drywall screws under the liner. This was a shower, that, conservatively, probably cost about $25,000 retail. You'd kinda think they'd sweep and clean before putting down the vinyl, but no.........

It's beyond comprehension how stupid some of this stuff is.

[kurt]

So does the scale at the right accurately give the temp of the three areas of leakage? And come you can't see the drain line in the ceiling?

I don't know if it was 3 areas of leakage, or "where" it was leaking, only that it was leaking. Of course, I know it's some doofus thing in the liner, but you can't say until it gets torn out.

The hard orange dots are ceiling cans. The scale @ the right gives an accurate temp down to .05 of a degree. Yes, that's right, 5/100's of a degree with very good resolution (320x240).

These are simple .jpegs, which is all I really need for HI work (for the most part). If I use the Fluke software picture format, it will give me an image where I can put it on the screen, and go pixel by pixel and get specific temps for that pixel. IOW, you can do specific analysis back in the office if you want or need to.

It's pretty tight on accuracy.

[David Meiland]

Kurt, you get that image with a wide angle lens or the standard lens?

[kurt]

I got the standard lens; it comes with the standard lens, and the wide angle is extra regardless.

It was a pretty good hit on the bank account, and I just couldn't justify the wide angle @ the time (it was another $1000).

Chris B. said a long while back that the wide angle is absolutely necessary if you're doing whole house scans. He's right. Trying to do a whole house without wide angle would take several hours and drive anyone nuts.

That said, I don't see the need for walking around a house doing whole house scans. I use it for focused analysis of specific components.

[Richard Saunders]

FYI, Kurt, your camera is way out of focus. Check your crown molding.

[kurt]

Whoever you are, go away. You don't know what you're talking about.

I've locked this topic, as I'm simply bored with the aroma that calls itself Richard Saunders. I hope others found something useful to use out of the thread.