external well pump

[John Dirks Jr]

This house had an external well pump. The pump cycled on at 20psi and off at 40psi. When the pressure drops to the lower end, the flow capacity is noticeably lower. At the higher side near 40psi its much better.

Can and should the settings be adjusted to a higher level? How is the adjustment made?

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[kurt]

The adjustment and switch is that little box on the side of the motor; there's live action electricity in there, so don't be working on it hot.

You'll see a spring with an adjustment nut on top; tighten the nut to increase, loosen to decrease pressure.

Most systems around here are set to kick in @ 40psi and off @ 60psi.

[John Dirks Jr]

Thanks Kurt. I also just gave myself a tutorial here. http://www.inspectapedia.com/water/WaterPumpAdjust.htm

[MMustola]

That looks like a single line suction pump. In my area they have not installed 2 inch driven wells like that since the 60's. I would be careful about making any comments about the well, water pressure, or volume unless you are specifically conducting a well inspection.

[John Dirks Jr]

Would this picture still make it a single line suction pump? The house was built in 1956.

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[kurt]

Looks like an old jet pump. It might not accommodate much more pressure or volume than what you're already getting.

[Bill Kibbel]

This house had an external well pump. The pump cycled on at 20psi and off at 40psi. When the pressure drops to the lower end, the flow capacity is noticeably lower. At the higher side near 40psi its much better.

If you can see a significant difference in the flow during a pump cycle, it's possible the hydro-pneumatic tank has failed. If the on/off cycles are quick, it has definitely failed.

Can and should the settings be adjusted to a higher level? How is the adjustment made?

One screw/nut raises and lowers the cut-in and cut-off pressures simultaneously. The other adjusts the difference between the cut-in and cut-off pressure. The old standard was 30/50 PSI. The new standard is 40/60.

[Erby]

Go back to InspectAPedia and read the article on Water well pressure tanks.

http://www.inspectapedia.com/water/watertank.htm

[MMustola]

John,

In the first picture it looked like a single line pump. In the new picture I can see that it is a duel line jet pump. These pumps can pump water up about 40 feet or maybe a little more. That is still pretty sallow. So by comments still stand. Your area my be different but in Michigan they have not installed anything but a 4 or 5 inch bored well with a submersible pump since the later 70's. We just don't have a lot of good water at 40 feet anymore.

[Tom Raymond]

My parents house has two wells with jet pumps, the house has the foot valve at about 60' and the barn at closer to 100'. No pressure or volume problems with either well.

[Bill Kibbel]

There's some serious misinformation being posted here and at the 2 links to another site.

Anyone here inspecting buildings with private water supply systems should get proper training. You should also learn the requirements for these systems in each county that you serve.

[hausdok]

There's some serious misinformation being posted here and at the 2 links to another site.

Anyone here inspecting buildings with private water supply systems should get proper training. You should also learn the requirements for these systems in each county that you serve.

Which once again gives me the opening to post the link to Purdue University's online Private Water Supply Course. Folks this is a very worthwhile course. It's a little bit clunky to use, because it was put together when the net was still relatively young but the information there is first rate. Take a Saturday off and work your way through it or tackle it an hour a night for a week to ten days.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Les]

Thanks Bill and Mike O. You are correct with your comments.

[kurt]

I'd appreciate it if there was some specificity in the comments regarding "serious" misinformation.

The links I understand.......but what else?

Did I promote misinformation?

[hausdok]

Did I promote misinformation?

No, but her married old sister has been promoted from dishwasher to chief cook and bottle washer.

Nyuk, nyuk!

[kurt]

Look here mister, I happen to know Miss Information, and let me tell you, you're no Misinformation.......[:-smile_g

[kurt]

Yeah, this thread certainly wasn't an in depth discussion of all the things necessary in reviewing private water supply systems, but it didn't exactly hit me as a mass of serious misinformation.

[Les]

Hey Kurt,

I think they, and me, are referring to Dan's stuff. Lots of the pump info is either poor or regional. Pumps are unique pieces of machinery and often mis-understood.

Shallow well pumps are limited by physics; can't suck water much more than 29' and not all jet pumps work alike.

Deep well jet style pumps can pump 200+ feet. lots of variables.

Too much for a couple of paragraphs and Mike has proposed a good study guide.

[Bill Kibbel]

I'd appreciate it if there was some specificity in the comments regarding "serious" misinformation.

The links I understand.......but what else?

Did I promote misinformation?

No.

An HI could find just enough info in this thread, combined with the info at the linked pages to get his/her butt handed to 'em. Like when incorrectly specifying which pump can handle what depth of well and declaring something a "shallow well" when it's not. Or, telling folks to go at a hydro-pneumatic tank with a bicycle pump to fix a much more serious problem.

Water supply systems can be hugely expensive to my clients. I like to give 'em very accurate info. I try to know as much about it as any other system in a building. I looked over the link Mike posted to a Private Water supply course. It has some useful info, but not enough to perform a complete inspection and identify components or problems correctly.

[kurt]

Understood.

Thanx.

[John Dirks Jr]

I have learned not to give specific information about things I'm not sure of. In this case, I stated my observations about the fluctuating water flow at the fixtures and mentioned that it could be as simple as an adjustment or possibly a more serious problem.

Having said that, I do appreciate the warnings I get from my fellow inspectors here. Please keep that up.

A bit more info about this well in specific; The client had been told it was a shallow well. The concrete cover was about a foot in diameter. I took it off and looked down the concrete pipe. I could see water when I shined my flashlight down the pipe. The pipe was slightly smaller in diameter than the cover.

I never specified on what the well was. I stated my observations and referred it to a specialist.

[Chad Fabry]

This house had an external well pump. The pump cycled on at 20psi and off at 40psi. When the pressure drops to the lower end, the flow capacity is noticeably lower. At the higher side near 40psi its much better.

Around here, that's not an unusual setting and of course you'll get more water at 40 psi than at 20 psi. As Bill said though, most pumps are either 30-50 or 40-60.

One issue with a 20-40 setting is that twenty feet above the pump, as with a second storey shower over a basement located pump, the pressure would be more like 12-32.

It may be set at 20-40 because the pump / jet valve combination is incorrect and the pump can't muster any more pressure than that, or because it's quite a deep well and the pump is doing all it can just to lift the water or a lot of old timers use 20-40 settings to decrease their electric bill. If it takes, say, 90 seconds to cycle the pump at 20-40 it'll usually take nearly twice that long to get the pressure to 50.

Jet pumps -two line set ups for deep wells- are terribly inefficient compared to submersibles because they only put a small portion of what they pump into the tank.

[Bain]

You know, I'm in back assward Kentucky, and I've NEVER checked out a house that wasn't connected to a municipal water-supply system. It's surprising that everyone talks about well pumps as if they're common sights--especially further North and East of where I am.

[Tom Raymond]

NY is far more rural than most people think. It's fairly common to see an Amish family roll into Walmart here. My town is 50 square miles with a population of 6200, half of those are housed by the State in one of the two prisons in town, and 80% of us are in one of three water districts. The prisons have their own massive water system, and the rest are on private wells. In a 20 mile radius, I'd wager 25% are on wells.

[Greg Booth]

In my town, in the Finger Lakes area, population 2000-the town center (former village) has a municipal system serving about 250 homes. Everyone else uses private wells. Along the lakes, most folks use convertible jet or submersible pumps extending into the lake. Local dive businesses exist solely to install/service these lake-systems. The zebra muscles have added an interesting facet to maintenance, as they are so prolific, they clog the pump intake screens.