Builders now doing flips-- arghh. (with questions)

[Brandon Whitmore]

I just re- inspected a house today that was purchased and flipped by a builder. My clients had a 2 page addendum full of requested repairs, and the builder did the typical half a$$ed repairs to save a buck.

The sellers of the property are a large builder (small town builder) in the town where the flip is occurring, and their agents are builders and own a large real estate firm. I want to make sure I have perfect documentation to avoid any arguments.

I have some questions about some things, and if any of you have quick references close by, I'll take any help I can get. I will of course be researching and probably answering the quetsions (will post back), but figured I might as well ask away- others may learn something.

First off, the house is a typical 1970's (Jim's favorite) ranch style home that was clad with T1-11'ish plywood siding with a weather resistive barrier in between the wall studs and siding.

The windows were replaced. The contractor cut the siding out around the original aluminum window frames to completely remove the existing windows (nail flange and all). They then set new construction type windows in place, and it appears they then just put finish trim over the gap between the siding and new window frames. They did not tie in to the existing vapor barrier, and the trim was just butted over the top of the plywood siding, with a healthy dose of caulk at window trim joints.

QUESTION NUMBER 1: Does anyone have documentation from a credible source that shows how retro fit window installations are to be done with this type of installation? There is no way the existing installation complies with flashing requirements, but I am expecting push back from the seller.

WHAT I THINK NEEDED TO BE DONE:

Since there is pretty much no way to properly flash/ tie in to the existing WRB, I believe that the trim should have been in-set to the siding (like when trim is installed prior to siding) with the siding butted up against the trim. Then flashing could have been along the head/ top of the window to comply with flashing requirements.

[Brandon Whitmore]

There were heavy leaks at both bathroom toilets, so there is contaminated subfloor insulation, and the vapor barrier below is contaminated.

QUESTION #2

What is the industry standard for clean up when there are old black water leaks?

What I think should have been done:

Ideally, they should have hired a company that specializes in this type of clean up, as I've had done before. All contaminated materials should have been removed/ replaced, and the area treated with something.

[Brandon Whitmore]

QUESTION NUMBER 3:

I know I've asked this one before, but I don't remember getting an answer I liked, so I'll ask and look into it again.

Are there any code requirements for the installation of a sump pump?

The existing installation consists of too small of a bucket, with a garden hose being used as a drain hose for the sump pump. There is no check valve installed on this drain line. The sump pit area of overflowing with water, because the float switch was stuck in the off position (jammed between the bucket and pump). I manually turned it on, and then is stuck in the on/ running position because it stuck again (sweet).

[Brandon Whitmore]

QUESTION NUMBER 4:

Are junction boxes allowed to be secured face up in the attic? -- attached to the bottom truss chord. While I think this is allowed, it seems dumb. As soon as more insulation is installed (only a few inches until upgrade), the boxes will be buried and difficult to find.

Along the same lines: About 10 egc's were secured under an individual terminal screw in the panel (one of the large ones). I don't think this is allowed since I doubt any lugs are rated for this many wires. The electrician blessed this installation and refused to fix it. NOTE: There is no label on this panel.

I don't want to fill this page up-- I've got 30 some other things to look up as well. Just figured I'd post some of them.

Thanks in advance if anyone wants to chime in.

[patt]

QUESTION NUMBER 1: Does anyone have documentation from a credible source that shows how retro fit window installations are to be done with this type of installation? There is no way the existing installation complies with flashing requirements, but I am expecting push back from the seller

Brandon

If you know of anyone that is a certified AAMA "Installation Master" take a look at their manual, this type of window change out is covered in the manual but it is silent on the replacement of the siding. The focus of the manual is just windows and doors.

Getting the IM certification can come in handy, but you can also buy the manual direct from AAMA.

Attached is a one page scan I did awhile ago for a similar situation.

Download Attachment: IM 001.pdf

182.56 KB

[Jim Katen]

. . . The windows were replaced. The contractor cut the siding out around the original aluminum window frames to completely remove the existing windows (nail flange and all). They then set new construction type windows in place, and it appears they then just put finish trim over the gap between the siding and new window frames. They did not tie in to the existing vapor barrier, and the trim was just butted over the top of the plywood siding, with a healthy dose of caulk at window trim joints.

QUESTION NUMBER 1: Does anyone have documentation from a credible source that shows how retro fit window installations are to be done with this type of installation? There is no way the existing installation complies with flashing requirements, but I am expecting push back from the seller.

http://pro.milgard.com/_doc/products/in ... 410-03.pdf

Note that this set of instructions refers to retrofit windows being installed inside an "existing window frame."

Otherwise, if there is no "existing window frame," the windows should be installed in accordance with one of the methods in this document:

http://pro.milgard.com/_doc/products/in ... 400-02.pdf

Now, if the builder wants to push back, ask him to produce printed instructions from the window manufacturer that backs up his method. Be sure to specify "printed instructions" otherwise a window manufacturer's rep will happily put his hand on a bible & swear that whatever the builder did was just fine & dandy.

[Jim Katen]

There were heavy leaks at both bathroom toilets, so there is contaminated subfloor insulation, and the vapor barrier below is contaminated.

QUESTION #2

What is the industry standard for clean up when there are old black water leaks?

What I think should have been done:

Ideally, they should have hired a company that specializes in this type of clean up, as I've had done before. All contaminated materials should have been removed/ replaced, and the area treated with something.

Honest, as far as I can tell, the industry standard around here is to fix the leak, replace anything that's rotten, & throw lime on the rest.

Nothing wrong with recommending something more better though.

[Jim Katen]

QUESTION NUMBER 3:

I know I've asked this one before, but I don't remember getting an answer I liked, so I'll ask and look into it again.

Are there any code requirements for the installation of a sump pump?

The existing installation consists of too small of a bucket, with a garden hose being used as a drain hose for the sump pump. There is no check valve installed on this drain line. The sump pit area of overflowing with water, because the float switch was stuck in the off position (jammed between the bucket and pump). I manually turned it on, and then is stuck in the on/ running position because it stuck again (sweet).

There are no code requirements that I'm aware of. I just tell them what good practice is. I sometime refer to the fact that the sump pump manufacturer specifies that the discharge hose can't be any smaller in diameter than the discharge tap on the sump. But I don't like to do that because then someone might read the rest of the instructions, which usually recommend really crappy things. I just fall back on describing why these things are problems & suggesting how it could be done better. Most of the time, that works.

[Jim Katen]

QUESTION NUMBER 4:

Are junction boxes allowed to be secured face up in the attic? -- attached to the bottom truss chord. While I think this is allowed, it seems dumb. As soon as more insulation is installed (only a few inches until upgrade), the boxes will be buried and difficult to find.

It's allowed. Not a problem.

Along the same lines: About 10 egc's were secured under an individual terminal screw in the panel (one of the large ones). I don't think this is allowed since I doubt any lugs are rated for this many wires. The electrician blessed this installation and refused to fix it. NOTE: There is no label on this panel.

The lugs are only allowed to hold one wire unless identified to hold more. Without a label, and unless there's identification on the lugs, that means only one EGC per lug. (Even though the label almost certainly would have allowed 2 or 3.

With stuff like this, I looke up the code cite, and say, "The source of my opinion is XXX. If someone disagrees with this, ask him to cite the source of his opinion."

[Marc]

Just wanted to congrat you on your 2,000th post. Jim's already seen to your needs.

Marc

[Brandon Whitmore]

If you know of anyone that is a certified AAMA "Installation Master" take a look at their manual, this type of window change out is covered in the manual but it is silent on the replacement of the siding. The focus of the manual is just windows and doors.

Thanks Peter. I'll have to pick up a copy of the manual.

[Brandon Whitmore]

http://pro.milgard.com/_doc/pr...0-03.pdf

Note that this set of instructions refers to retrofit windows being installed inside an "existing window frame."

I cringe whenever I see this type of installation. Whenever I see retro fit windows installed, I slow wayyyyyyyyy down when looking for signs of leakage on the interior.

Now, if the builder wants to push back, ask him to produce printed instructions from the window manufacturer that backs up his method. Be sure to specify "printed instructions" otherwise a window manufacturer's rep will happily put his hand on a bible & swear that whatever the builder did was just fine & dandy.

Yep-- I've dealt with many shady manufacturers reps.

[Brandon Whitmore]

Honest, as far as I can tell, the industry standard around here is to fix the leak, replace anything that's rotten, & throw lime on the rest.

Nothing wrong with recommending something more better though.

My original report recommended the removal of all contaminated materials, and clean up of the area by a professional that specializes in this type of clean up. The seller signed the addendum stating they would do the work, but did nothing of course.

There was that brown'ish semi- liquid crud built up under both toilets-- nasty.

[Brandon Whitmore]

There are no code requirements that I'm aware of. I just tell them what good practice is. I sometime refer to the fact that the sump pump manufacturer specifies that the discharge hose can't be any smaller in diameter than the discharge tap on the sump. But I don't like to do that because then someone might read the rest of the instructions, which usually recommend really crappy things. I just fall back on describing why these things are problems & suggesting how it could be done better. Most of the time, that works.

Bummer.

[Brandon Whitmore]

Just wanted to congrat you on your 2,000th post. Jim's already seen to your needs.

Marc

Thanks Marc,

Does that mean I'm getting old, or that I have a problem?

Peter and Jim: Thanks again for your time.

[Brandon Whitmore]

Does anyone have a copy of this document:ASTM E2112 - 07 Standard Practice for Installation of Exterior Windows, Doors and Skylights

If so, would you recommend it?

[Marc]

Does anyone have a copy of this document:ASTM E2112 - 07 Standard Practice for Installation of Exterior Windows, Doors and Skylights

If so, would you recommend it?

I haven't looked at it for awhile but I've generally high regards for any ASTM standard.

Check your company Email.

Marc

[Rocon]

Does anyone have a copy of this document:ASTM E2112 - 07 Standard Practice for Installation of Exterior Windows, Doors and Skylights

If so, would you recommend it?

Yes, Yes

[Chris Bernhardt]

Does anyone have a copy of this document:ASTM E2112 - 07 Standard Practice for Installation of Exterior Windows, Doors and Skylights

If so, would you recommend it?

Yes, but understand that it's a guideline. You might find it educational, but it's not a fire that you can hold a contractors feet to.

Chris, Oregon

[Brandon Whitmore]

Yes, Yes

Yes, but understand that it's a guideline. You might find it educational, but it's not a fire that you can hold a contractors feet to.

Ramon and Chris-- Thanks.