Marc Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 I've used this a few times: 'Remedy the......' Does anyone know of an authoritative source that I can use when I face up with some bigwig about using active voice, present tense and imperative mood when writing reports? Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Raymond Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 I don't use the I urge you to, because I wouldn't use it if I was talking to you. Sounds kind of phony. Not phony, out of place. That language is from another era. The old codger running that class had a seat on the arc. FWIW, I brought up "use at your own risk." The old guy liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Fabry Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Does anyone know of an authoritative source that I can use when I face up with some bigwig about using active voice, present tense and imperative mood when writing reports? Marc If it's your report, you're the authoritative voice. Convincing others to meet your expectations is like looking for water in the desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted September 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 I've used this a few times: 'Remedy the......' Does anyone know of an authoritative source that I can use when I face up with some bigwig about using active voice, present tense and imperative mood when writing reports? Marc Marc, Are you thoroughly convinced that a busy corporate big wig that values his time is chomping at the bit to arduously sift through a patchwork quilt of embelished and superfluous words to assemble in his busy mind what is significant?... Chad's comment is absolutely true, but if you have doubts about the style of writing being addressed here, I've had many corporate big wigs that get relocated every couple years tell me, unsolicited, "this is the best report I've ever seen." Any style will get the job done. Some are merely more painful to read than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Does anyone know of an authoritative source that I can use when I face up with some bigwig about using active voice, present tense and imperative mood when writing reports? Marc Click here. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtblum Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 I don't use the I urge you to, because I wouldn't use it if I was talking to you. Sounds kind of phony. Not phony, out of place. That language is from another era. The old codger running that class had a seat on the arc. FWIW, I brought up "use at your own risk." The old guy liked it. That's right. You did. Sorry about that. I think his son the attorney had a lot to do with what he was teaching. His approach seemed to be more about stressing the importance of the client understanding that they needed to take action on what had been reported, and to prevent someone from later saying, You never told me It was that important and I could lose my house if I didn't didn't fix it and my friend got hurt. I think that goes right along with everything said here. FTR I'd rather learn from an old guy than anyone. Old guys know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 FTR I'd rather learn from an old guy than anyone. Old guys know. Well, dang it then. How come I don't know?[] Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 . . . Does anyone know of an authoritative source that I can use when I face up with some bigwig about using active voice, present tense and imperative mood when writing reports? Imperative mood isn't necessary. I like it & I use it almost exclusively for my recommendation sentences, but it's hardly required. Some people don't like it because it sounds paternalistic, as if you were ordering people to do this & that - which, of course, you are. Some inspectors prefer to write their recommendations in a way that presents options & solutions in a way that isn't quite so inflexible. The imperative is just a style choice that I've made; there's no authority that demands it. I don't know what's so great about present tense. I use all sorts of different tenses in my reports. Past, present, future & all of their variations are useful. I'd hate to be limited to one. In fact I don't believe I'd be capable of writing a report in a single tense. It'd get pretty boring, anyway. The hose bibs are the frost-proof kind. (present) When I turned on the south hose bib, it leaked from its stem. (past) It will probably leak every time you use it. (future) Passive voice is also a style choice, but pretty much every authority out there will endorse active over passive in most cases. Check out Henry Fowler, Strunk & White, James Kilpatrick, & Grammar Girl. If you need a single convincing reference, try the Chicago Manual of Style. It's hard to argue with CMS. That said, passive voice does have its place and I use it here & there in every report. Sometimes, its the best way to express something. In reinspection reports, in particular, I use passive a lot. It just seems like the best way to talk about repairs that have recently taken place. The most important advice I can give anyone about report writing is to make deliberate style choices. Most inspectors haven't got a clue. They just write in a mechanical inspectorspeak manner that seems designed to obscure meaning. For instance, in my reports, I always write about defects in three parts: headline, description, & recommendation. The headline (nearly) always begins with an adjective. The description (nearly) always begins with the location of the problem and I (nearly) always write it in active voice. The recommendation is (nearly) always written in the imperative. I think my choices are good ones, but they're not the only ones. Another set of choices would be equally valid. The important thing is that the style choices give the report consistency and make it easy to read & easy to understand. Without consistent style choices, the report is harder to understand. - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 For instance, in my reports, I always write about defects in three parts: headline, description, & recommendation. The headline (nearly) always begins with an adjective. The description (nearly) always begins with the location of the problem and I (nearly) always write it in active voice. The recommendation is (nearly) always written in the imperative. - Jim Katen, Oregon Jim, how about an example or two? Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kogel Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 OK, how am I going to recommend anything without using "recommend"? How do I replace this: "(I) Recommend (you, the buyer, consider) insulating the attic hatch to reduce heat loss and etc." "Insulate the hatch" is too strong. Now the buyer is running back to the seller, the inspector says you, the sellers, need to insulate the hatch or we walk. "Recommended" become "required" pretty easy as it is. A few deals have fizzled because of the HI's recommendations turning into demands from the buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Jim, how about an example or two? Here's Monday's report. - Jim Katen, Oregon Download Attachment: KatenSample.pdf 1047.62 KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted September 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 FTR I'd rather learn from an old guy than anyone. Old guys know. Well, dang it then. How come I don't know?[] Marc It's the tie. It's restricting circulation North. (I couldn't help myself. You know I'm kidding brother Marc. You da Man!) [:-graduat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 OK, how am I going to recommend anything without using "recommend"? How do I replace this: "(I) Recommend (you, the buyer, consider) insulating the attic hatch to reduce heat loss and etc." Do you actually write "Recommend (you, the buyer, consider) insulating . . ." ??? That's horrible. What's wrong with "I recommend that you insulate the attic hatch?" My objection to the word recommend isn't the word itself, it's using it in such a way that you're telling the reader to recommend something. "Insulate the hatch" is too strong. Now the buyer is running back to the seller, the inspector says you, the sellers, need to insulate the hatch or we walk. If you feel it's too strong, don't use it. I use it all the time and people don't seem to have any trouble understanding me. Most of my clients aren't stupid enough to think that they have to do something just because I phrase things in the imperative. Give your customers some credit and they might surprise you. "Recommended" become "required" pretty easy as it is. A few deals have fizzled because of the HI's recommendations turning into demands from the buyers. Do you tell people that your reports include "requirements?" Sounds like a problem with expectations, not with grammar. - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausdok Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 OK, how am I going to recommend anything without using "recommend"? How do I replace this: "(I) Recommend (you, the buyer, consider) insulating the attic hatch to reduce heat loss and etc." "Insulate the hatch" is too strong. Now the buyer is running back to the seller, the inspector says you, the sellers, need to insulate the hatch or we walk. "Recommended" become "required" pretty easy as it is. A few deals have fizzled because of the HI's recommendations turning into demands from the buyers. To reduce heat loss, (you should) consider insulating the attic hatch.(You should) Consider insulating the attic hatch in order to reduce heat loss. You are the one writing the report. Is it really necessary to say, "I recommend" when they know you are the one writing the report. I can understand you saying something like, "The Chimney Safety Institute of America (CSIA) recommends that home buyers have a CSIA-certified chimneysweep inspect all fireplace chimneys at resale," but I don't think you need to continually say, "Recommend." Reports where I've constantly read "Recommend ...." have all seemed so stilted and mechanical. ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!! Mike P.S. Whoops, I see Jim was Johnny-on-the-spot and was writing at the same time I was. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted September 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 OK, how am I going to recommend anything without using "recommend"? How do I replace this: "(I) Recommend (you, the buyer, consider) insulating the attic hatch to reduce heat loss and etc." "Insulate the hatch" is too strong. Now the buyer is running back to the seller, the inspector says you, the sellers, need to insulate the hatch or we walk. "Recommended" become "required" pretty easy as it is. A few deals have fizzled because of the HI's recommendations turning into demands from the buyers. Just food for thought. In all the years I've been doing this, I've never used the word "recommend". I'm not against the word. It just never comes to mind. In fact, if you think about it, "Recommend" is a pitifully weak word. If I'm recommending an upgrade, I usually start with "Consider", which actually involves the reader.. "You consider this..." The nice thing about most of the words in the list is just that - they involve the reader, through the implied "YOU" do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morrison Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 OK, how am I going to recommend anything without using "recommend"? How do I replace this: "(I) Recommend (you, the buyer, consider) insulating the attic hatch to reduce heat loss and etc." "Insulate the hatch" is too strong. Now the buyer is running back to the seller, the inspector says you, the sellers, need to insulate the hatch or we walk. "Recommended" become "required" pretty easy as it is. A few deals have fizzled because of the HI's recommendations turning into demands from the buyers. Just food for thought. In all the years I've been doing this, I've never used the word "recommend". I'm not against the word. It just never comes to mind. In fact, if you think about it, "Recommend" is a pitifully weak word. If I'm recommending an upgrade, I usually start with "Consider", which actually involves the reader.. "You consider this..." The nice thing about most of the words in the list is just that - they involve the reader, through the implied "YOU" do it... Funny, I find the reverse to be true. "I recommend that you drain some water form the base of the water heater each month. This will...." In this sentence you are promoting a good, but not necessary practice to your client. "Consider draining some water form the base of the water heater each month. This will..." In this sentence, you are proposing an idea without taking a side. I think it is quite clearly the weaker of the two. Consider upgrading the electrical service. I recommend that you upgrade the electrical service. Same thing again. Can you provide an example where 'Consider' is stronger than "I recommend"? I can't think of one. There are almost no hard and fast rules in HI Report Writing save this: no one does it better than Katen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted September 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 OK, how am I going to recommend anything without using "recommend"? How do I replace this: "(I) Recommend (you, the buyer, consider) insulating the attic hatch to reduce heat loss and etc." "Insulate the hatch" is too strong. Now the buyer is running back to the seller, the inspector says you, the sellers, need to insulate the hatch or we walk. "Recommended" become "required" pretty easy as it is. A few deals have fizzled because of the HI's recommendations turning into demands from the buyers. Just food for thought. In all the years I've been doing this, I've never used the word "recommend". I'm not against the word. It just never comes to mind. In fact, if you think about it, "Recommend" is a pitifully weak word. If I'm recommending an upgrade, I usually start with "Consider", which actually involves the reader.. "You consider this..." The nice thing about most of the words in the list is just that - they involve the reader, through the implied "YOU" do it... Funny, I find the reverse to be true. "I recommend that you drain some water form the base of the water heater each month. This will...." In this sentence you are promoting a good, but not necessary practice to your client. "Consider draining some water form the base of the water heater each month. This will..." In this sentence, you are proposing an idea without taking a side. I think it is quite clearly the weaker of the two. Consider upgrading the electrical service. I recommend that you upgrade the electrical service. Same thing again. Can you provide an example where 'Consider' is stronger than "I recommend"? I can't think of one. There are almost no hard and fast rules in HI Report Writing save this: no one does it better than Katen. You're right. It's a matter of preference and style. Fred Pryor, in his seminar Effective Business Writing, advocates involving the reader, at every possible opportunity, and I agree. The main difference between the two styles is that in "Recommending" the note is really about what you think. With the imperative mood, it's all about 'what the reader should do now'. I suspect that the average person is so calloused to hearing "I recommend" in life, that they immediately begin to drift off thinking "yeah, yeah, whatever." But, when you tell someone "what to do", they are truly confronted with an "OK" or "No thanks" decision. They are instantly involved. It's a small difference, as you say, but I'm all for reaching out and grabbing my reader, without sounding like a fountain of opinions. I wonder how many of us have actually picked up a handful of our reports and read them, as if we were a buyer. Would we quickly find ouselves struggling to remain focused? I admire BIll Kibbel's honesty in saying, in another thread, "You couldn't do anything to make me read one of my old reports." As dry as a home inspection report may be, it is possible to make it somewhat engaging and enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence McCann Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Consider upgrading the electrical service. I recommend that you upgrade the electrical service. Great example. I always use "I recommend". The intent of the wording is clear where as 'consider" is more of a open ended statement leaving doubt as to direction. Consider leaves wiggle room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 There are almost no hard and fast rules in HI Report Writing save this: no one does it better than Katen. It's a very comfortable and engaging read. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Holy Cow........how long does it take to assemble that baby? Also, how do you determine there's an overloaded neutral in a multi-wire circuit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted September 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Consider upgrading the electrical service. I recommend that you upgrade the electrical service. Great example. I always use "I recommend". The intent of the wording is clear where as 'consider" is more of a open ended statement leaving doubt as to direction. Consider leaves wiggle room. Et tu Brute? (JK) Actually "consider" is not the best example. I only use it regarding options like, upgrading to a sealed and conditioned crawlspace or bumping the attic insulation up to R-38, etc. It's a rather gray word. But I still can't get myself to use recommend, because it becomes about me and my opinion when I'd prefer that my reader focus immediately on the option instead of what I think. For some reason, "I recommend" sounds a tad bit conceited, which is probably my own issue. Either way, they get the message, which is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence McCann Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 But I still can't get myself to use recommend, because it becomes about me and my opinion when I'd prefer that my reader focus immediately on the option instead of what I think. It is about you and your opinion though - that's what your client hired you for, your opinion. It's the same as seeing a doctor, lawyer or auto mechanic. Tell me what needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbinspect Posted September 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 But I still can't get myself to use recommend, because it becomes about me and my opinion when I'd prefer that my reader focus immediately on the option instead of what I think. It is about you and your opinion though - that's what your client hired you for, your opinion. It's the same as seeing a doctor, lawyer or auto mechnic. Tell me what needs to be done. So then, does the doctor recommend that you take the prescription to the pharmacy, fill it and take them, or does he simply hand you the prescription and say, "Take one every eight hours until it's gone."? Check-mate... The recommendation part is a given. You're right, my client hired me to tell him all I can about his home and what to do. The entire exercise is about what I observe and recommend, so I skip the formality and tell him what to do. That's just my way... (And, apparenly the doctor's) [:-eyebrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Katen Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Holy Cow........how long does it take to assemble that baby? With this one: 5 hours on site, which includes most of the writing. (I would have been an hour less if the buyer hadn't insisted on being present.) 2 hours in the office, cleaning up the writing & filling in the stuff that I didn't write on site. (This would have taken another hour less if the buyer hadn't insisted on being present on site -- my on-site notes would have been cleaner and needed less touching up.) 30 minutes sorting, resizing, annotating, & inserting the pictures. With this kind of customization, I really can't have customers around when I'm working. The distraction is just too time consuming. I think the next time a customer shows up to "tag along with me" I'm going to put big, fluffly earmuffs over my ears and duct tape across my mouth until the end. Also, how do you determine there's an overloaded neutral in a multi-wire circuit? I didn't determine that the neutral was overloaded, only that the MW circuit was improperly installed. I trace the black & red wires from the cable to the breakers and then use a multimeter or Detecto-lite to see if they're both on the same pole. - Jim Katen, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Simon Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 Also, I never say something like "Install a smoke detector here", or "Fix the leak". I always say "Have an electrician install a smoke detector here", or "Have a plumber fix the leak". I just know some day some guy will fall off a ladder and kill himzelf installing the smoke detector, or flood the house fixing the leak, and his wife will be pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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