Keeping Yourself Occupied When Times Are Slow

[Jim Morrison]

In case anyone is interested, there's a free downloadable copy of US Grant's Memoirs available at http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4367

Marc

I've been meaning to check that site out for some time, but never have. Thanks very much for the tip. I just downloaded Grant's biography and will surely be back for more.

I read Grant's autobiography and found it thoroughly diappointing. First, the writing in poor. I couldn't believe that Mark Twain would have heaped so much praise on it, until I found out that Mark Twain is the one who gave Grant the contract. He owned a piece of the book sales, so of course he promoted it.

Second, I was disappointed that the story stopped short of his Presidency. Grant's administration was one of the most scandal-ridden in history. I would have liked to read his thoughts on that. He died a few days after completing the book, though, so we can't blame him. Maybe he'd have gotten around to it later.

Also, his heavy use of anti-slavery rhetoric (very heavy) rings a bit hollow since he relied on his father in law's slaves while he was retired from the military. I guess you're allowed to color your story in an autobiography, but it struck me as disingenuous.

Anyway, I'm grateful to have been turned onto The Gutenburg Project and will be

[Jim Katen]

I read Grant's autobiography and found it thoroughly diappointing. . . .

Try Ben Franklin's auto-b. It's very good.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[mgbinspect]

In case anyone is interested, there's a free downloadable copy of US Grant's Memoirs available at http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4367

Marc

I've been meaning to check that site out for some time, but never have. Thanks very much for the tip. I just downloaded Grant's biography and will surely be back for more.

I read Grant's autobiography and found it thoroughly diappointing. First, the writing in poor. I couldn't believe that Mark Twain would have heaped so much praise on it, until I found out that Mark Twain is the one who gave Grant the contract. He owned a piece of the book sales, so of course he promoted it.

Second, I was disappointed that the story stopped short of his Presidency. Grant's administration was one of the most scandal-ridden in history. I would have liked to read his thoughts on that. He died a few days after completing the book, though, so we can't blame him. Maybe he'd have gotten around to it later.

Also, his heavy use of anti-slavery rhetoric (very heavy) rings a bit hollow since he relied on his father in law's slaves while he was retired from the military. I guess you're allowed to color your story in an autobiography, but it struck me as disingenuous.

Anyway, I'm grateful to have been turned onto The Gutenburg Project and will be

Wow! I'm not surprised that you would have an opinion about Grant's writing, since you are a writer, but the rest is a bit surprising.

According to two other sources - a book "Grant" and a History Channel documentary, Grant's only involvement in the alleged "scandal" was that he invested in the company and permitted the use of his name. When the sh*t hit the fan, he was completely floored, having no idea that his partner was so completely sociopathinc.

Grant tended to trust people too much, but was respected by all (in his day - and that's an important distinction).

But, I know of no other alleged scandal beyond that one awful tragedy.

I, for one, need to learn of all of the dirty details that add up to "one of the most scandalous administrations in history" - especially Grant's direct involvement in them.

I've always found it a bit sad, when folks have a desire to rewrite history - taking events and attitudes completely out of the context of life at the time the events took place.

Can we talk history, based upon the attitudes and beliefs that were a part of the history, when it occured? It's a horrible mistake to view history, holding it to today's understandings and beliefs. That's not a study of history.

References please?....

[Mike Lamb]

Read anything by David McCullough IMO. Truman (my favorite), The Johnstown Flood, Mornings on Horseback, and most importantly, “1776â€

[Mike Lamb]

My readings support that US Grant was a good man, naive, but not a crook. And a great general. "The Butcher," as he was called because of his horrible battlefield casualties understood that disease was the enormous evil destroying both armies, and not the more publicized battlefield casualties.

[mgbinspect]

Read anything by David McCullough IMO. Truman (my favorite), The Johnstown Flood, Mornings on Horseback, and most importantly, “1776â€

[mgbinspect]

Precisely.

It's truly sad, how much Grant has suffered from unjustified defamation and it continues just because folks aren't read up on him. Earnest historical research reveals Grant to be the kind of man we should all hope to be - honest, patient, hopeful, tolerant, focused, direct, humble, modest.

While the acting General, he arriving at a hotel in Washington, DC with his son. The desk clerk informed him that he and his son would have to sleep in one of the attic rooms, which were pretty much for low class folks and the hotel staff. Grant said calmly, "That will be fine." But, when he signed the register "US Grant and son", the clerk promptly said, "The presidential suite is available for you." Grant simply didn't care about such things.

Regarding, rumors of Grant's alcoholism, those rumors were teed up by his military adversaries and superiors, both of which could not equal his performance. George McClellan, for instance, was a gutless paper tiger, who only did one thing well - pose in his uniform with his hand in his jacket, like Napoleon, and rail against president Lincoln and everyone else that ever dared to speak of his cowardice. Grant made his superiors look good, but as usual, the didn't wish to see him rise up above them, so they did all they could to keep him down. accusing him of alcoholism, was a very harmful, and almost had him removed from the army, until his state senator caught wind of what was happening and got the record set straight.

Regarding the ONE incident where Grant was labeled a "butcher", even Grant expressed both regret and remorse over that battle. But Grant was a great general, because he was relentless. He knew that the "the only way to whip an army is to go out and fight 'em", which he did with very deliberate focus.

Regarding scandal, as you say Mike, Grant was trusting and naive - not suited for politics - too honest, kind and considerate.

Regarding Grant and even the remotest hint of scandal - when he learned of the antics of his partner, he SOLD every piece of presidential and military memorabilia he owned (could anyone imagine doing such a thing) in an attempt to repay those that he cared for that were hurt. Who does that? Grant did. He was completely embarrassed and devastated, by the whole affair. I doubt many of us could muster that level of honor - to sell all we owned, simply to make a wrong right. The events of an administration rarely define the character of the leader.

Regarding Grant and slavery, Grant inherited a slave from his father-in-law. He freed the man within a year. Grant also worked as a hired hand - a manager - on a farm that used slaves. He worked along side of them, as was his custom. Grant couldn't snap his fingers and change history or rewrite it, but he did do all he could to change it. He wasn't one to talk, but rather do.

Historians who actually look honestly at history, have come to realize that the facts reveal that Grant was a very good man and a great leader, both as a general and a president. His downfall was that he trusted those around him, apparently assuming folks were as honorable as he was.

Regarding Mark Twain - he was a brilliant satirist who wrote wonderfully. But, through his writings, it becomes obvious that he absolutely loathed politicians. Yet, he loved Grant. Could it possibly be that he knew Grant was a genuine person - not a politician (which is true - Grant was entirely too trusting and naive to be a politician)? I have great respect for Mark Twain. He had no education beyond elementary school, which in today's world would be held against him in many circles. He did, however, receive honorary degrees from colleges like Oxford and University of Missouri. It's always sad when folk truly believe that everything everyone does in life has or had an ulterior motive. Could it be that Twain, being the brilliant satirist and perceptive person he was, could actually understand and appreciate that there is more than one style of writing? Grant wrote history - a nakedly honest account of it. To his credit, and fully in keeping with his character, he did not candy coat it to embellish himself. And, if you google Grant, you won't find folks that declare his writing was bad. To the contrary, you'll find many references to how clearly he wrote, which is why he is still referred to at West Point, to this day.

[Jim Morrison]

In case anyone is interested, there's a free downloadable copy of US Grant's Memoirs available at http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4367

Marc

I've been meaning to check that site out for some time, but never have. Thanks very much for the tip. I just downloaded Grant's biography and will surely be back for more.

I read Grant's autobiography and found it thoroughly diappointing. First, the writing in poor. I couldn't believe that Mark Twain would have heaped so much praise on it, until I found out that Mark Twain is the one who gave Grant the contract. He owned a piece of the book sales, so of course he promoted it.

Second, I was disappointed that the story stopped short of his Presidency. Grant's administration was one of the most scandal-ridden in history. I would have liked to read his thoughts on that. He died a few days after completing the book, though, so we can't blame him. Maybe he'd have gotten around to it later.

Also, his heavy use of anti-slavery rhetoric (very heavy) rings a bit hollow since he relied on his father in law's slaves while he was retired from the military. I guess you're allowed to color your story in an autobiography, but it struck me as disingenuous.

Anyway, I'm grateful to have been turned onto The Gutenburg Project and will be

Wow! I'm not surprised that you would have an opinion about Grant's writing, since you are a writer, but the rest is a bit surprising.

According to two other sources - a book "Grant" and a History Channel documentary, Grant's only involvement in the alleged "scandal" was that he invested in the company and permitted the use of his name. When the sh*t hit the fan, he was completely floored, having no idea that his partner was so completely sociopathinc.

Grant tended to trust people too much, but was respected by all (in his day - and that's an important distinction).

But, I know of no other alleged scandal beyond that one awful tragedy.

I, for one, need to learn of all of the dirty details that add up to "one of the most scandalous administrations in history" - especially Grant's direct involvement in them.

I've always found it a bit sad, when folks have a desire to rewrite history - taking events and attitudes completely out of the context of life at the time the events took place.

Can we talk history, based upon the attitudes and beliefs that were a part of the history, when it occured? It's a horrible mistake to view history, holding it to today's understandings and beliefs. That's not a study of history.

References please?....

Mike,

Take it easy. I didn't attack your hero. I just didn't like his book. The Grant Administration scandals are a matter of history. Look 'em up. Grant wasn't directly implicated in them, except by the fact that his administration was so heavily nepotistic. It's a big part of his story, and I would have liked to know what he had to say about it. Like I said, I don't blame him for the omission; the poor bastard died before he could have gotten to that part.

Farm managers worked with slaves? No. My wife works with other accountants. I don't know this, but I don't suppose managers and slaves ate lunch together, chatted about what college their kids' were applying to, or played on the same softball team.

I don't think that discounts the man's life's work. Life is more complex than that. But it does cast his near-constant moralizing against slavery in the book a different light.

History? Autobiographies aren't history. If I ever wrote an autobiography, you can be damned sure I will be glossing over the parts I wouldn't want my great aunt Nellie to know about, and overemphasizing my achievements. Autobiographies are PR, and nothing more.

In short: Good man, disappointing book.

Next!

[Marc]

Farm managers worked with slaves? No. My wife works with other accountants. I don't know this, but I don't suppose managers and slaves ate lunch together, chatted about what college their kids' were applying to, or played on the same softball team.

Oh, come now Jim. Ever held a job in which the boss led by example instead of just walking around, barking orders and 'cracking the whip'?

Sure, you weren't a slave, but how difficult is it to fathom a compassionate and intelligent slave owner that saw the value of enthusiastic workers? It could have happened on some farms.

Marc

[Jim Morrison]

Farm managers worked with slaves? No. My wife works with other accountants. I don't know this, but I don't suppose managers and slaves ate lunch together, chatted about what college their kids' were applying to, or played on the same softball team.

Oh, come now Jim. Ever held a job in which the boss led by example instead of just walking around, barking orders and 'cracking the whip'?

Sure, you weren't a slave, but how difficult is it to fathom a compassionate and intelligent slave owner that saw the value of enthusiastic workers? It could have happened on some farms.

Marc

Your analogy between employment and enslavement doesn't hold water. What particular sort of compassion do you confer upon a man who owns other people?

I've never read a slave's account of slavery that said: "You know what? It really wasn't that bad." You?

Anyway, I don't suppose this is the place to debate the righteousness of slavery. I believe the world has almost unanimously settled that question. I thought we were talking about books.

[mgbinspect]

In case anyone is interested, there's a free downloadable copy of US Grant's Memoirs available at http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4367

Marc

I've been meaning to check that site out for some time, but never have. Thanks very much for the tip. I just downloaded Grant's biography and will surely be back for more.

I read Grant's autobiography and found it thoroughly diappointing. First, the writing in poor. I couldn't believe that Mark Twain would have heaped so much praise on it, until I found out that Mark Twain is the one who gave Grant the contract. He owned a piece of the book sales, so of course he promoted it.

Second, I was disappointed that the story stopped short of his Presidency. Grant's administration was one of the most scandal-ridden in history. I would have liked to read his thoughts on that. He died a few days after completing the book, though, so we can't blame him. Maybe he'd have gotten around to it later.

Also, his heavy use of anti-slavery rhetoric (very heavy) rings a bit hollow since he relied on his father in law's slaves while he was retired from the military. I guess you're allowed to color your story in an autobiography, but it struck me as disingenuous.

Anyway, I'm grateful to have been turned onto The Gutenburg Project and will be

Wow! I'm not surprised that you would have an opinion about Grant's writing, since you are a writer, but the rest is a bit surprising.

According to two other sources - a book "Grant" and a History Channel documentary, Grant's only involvement in the alleged "scandal" was that he invested in the company and permitted the use of his name. When the sh*t hit the fan, he was completely floored, having no idea that his partner was so completely sociopathinc.

Grant tended to trust people too much, but was respected by all (in his day - and that's an important distinction).

But, I know of no other alleged scandal beyond that one awful tragedy.

I, for one, need to learn of all of the dirty details that add up to "one of the most scandalous administrations in history" - especially Grant's direct involvement in them.

I've always found it a bit sad, when folks have a desire to rewrite history - taking events and attitudes completely out of the context of life at the time the events took place.

Can we talk history, based upon the attitudes and beliefs that were a part of the history, when it occured? It's a horrible mistake to view history, holding it to today's understandings and beliefs. That's not a study of history.

References please?....

Mike,

Take it easy. I didn't attack your hero. I just didn't like his book. The Grant Administration scandals are a matter of history. Look 'em up. Grant wasn't directly implicated in them, except by the fact that his administration was so heavily nepotistic. It's a big part of his story, and I would have liked to know what he had to say about it. Like I said, I don't blame him for the omission; the poor bastard died before he could have gotten to that part.

Farm managers worked with slaves? No. My wife works with other accountants. I don't know this, but I don't suppose managers and slaves ate lunch together, chatted about what college their kids' were applying to, or played on the same softball team.

I don't think that discounts the man's life's work. Life is more complex than that. But it does cast his near-constant moralizing against slavery in the book a different light.

History? Autobiographies aren't history. If I ever wrote an autobiography, you can be damned sure I will be glossing over the parts I wouldn't want my great aunt Nellie to know about, and overemphasizing my achievements. Autobiographies are PR, and nothing more.

In short: Good man, disappointing book.

Next!

I'd hardly call Grant a hero of mine, but I would say that he seemed to escape a few of the greater temptations men fall victim to. He let his accomplishments speak for themself, without ever tooting his own horn. I do like that - refreshing.

Nor, did he really appear to be particularly ambitious, in a self-centered way. It appears that he was more a "duty bound" and "get the job done" sort of guy. To me, he was just plain likeable and respectable.

"Grant also ran a slave operated farm in White Haven, Missouri, delegating duties and chores such as chopping firewood and caring after the livestock. Grant often worked alongside the farm's slaves, as was a common practice of 'hired help'."

references:

http://www.nps.gov/ulsg/historyculture/slaveryatwh.htm

http://www.nas.com/~lopresti/ps.htm

No doubt, his administration was a train wreck in some ways. He, unfortunately, was swept into something he never aspired to do, nor was he prepared to do it. A politician, he wasn't.

Follow up his personal memoirs with the book Grant, by John Mosier. This second book caused me to understand that he was an awesome guy, that some talk about, but few actually knew or understood. Most of the phrases used to describe him, are the ones that we all pine to hear said about ourselves, and he apparently earned them all.

So many famous people are made so by others, who upon close examination, prove to be quite ordinary. Grant, was thought to be quite ordinary, but examination proves him to be extraordinary - well worth fully understanding.

I'm done.

[hausdok]

I'd thought about splitting this topic but didn't because I probably would have had to split it twice - once to separate the discussion about nude modeling and then again to separate the hand wringing over a dead President's reputation. In the end I just left it together and changed the title of the thread.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Scottpat]

I'd thought about splitting this topic but didn't because I probably would have had to split it twice - once to separate the discussion about nude modeling and then again to separate the hand wringing over a dead President's reputation. In the end I just left it together and changed the title of the thread.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Kind of sounds like the War of Northern Aggression without the loss of life!

[hausdok]

I'd thought about splitting this topic but didn't because I probably would have had to split it twice - once to separate the discussion about nude modeling and then again to separate the hand wringing over a dead President's reputation. In the end I just left it together and changed the title of the thread.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Kind of sounds like the War of Northern Aggression without the loss of life!

War of northern aggression?? Oh! Of course, you most be referring to the war of illegal southern secession. How silly of me not to realize. []

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Erby]

What, you all don't remember the Florida Handyman -

Naked Dan, the Handyman????

http://www.nakedan.com/

[hausdok]

Ugh,

Just what we need, a link directing folks to a wookie's site. Wazza matta, Erby, Joe isn't studdly enough for your taste?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Tom Raymond]

Given the new name of this thread, that is very disturbing Erby. [:-yuck][:-bigeyes[][:-sick]BUICK!!!

[Erby]

Hey, that one's been around for a long time, just like the lady in coorado who does home inspections that include searching for ghosts.

I'm spending some slow time developing a new marketing theme.

What you think?

Click to Enlarge

39.82 KB

On second thought, maybe I should just go read a history book!

-

[Scottpat]

Hey, that one's been around for a long time, just like the lady in coorado who does home inspections that include searching for ghosts.

I'm spending some slow time developing a new marketing theme.

What you think?

Click to Enlarge

39.82 KB

On second thought, maybe I should just go read a history book!

-

Erby, that sure is a big screwdriver!

[hausdok]

Methinks Erby is a Craig Ferguson fan.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Erby]

No ready pun response comes to mind, Scott. I'll leave it to others.

Mike, who the hell is Craig Ferguson?

Never mind, I'll Google it.

-

-

[kurt]

I'm spending some slow time developing a new marketing theme.

What you think?

Click to Enlarge

39.82 KB

Don't quit the day job..........

[Jim Katen]

I'm spending some slow time developing a new marketing theme.

What you think?

Click to Enlarge

39.82 KB

Don't quit the day job..........

Unless you're trying out for the Village People . . .

[Bain]

Hey, that one's been around for a long time, just like the lady in coorado who does home inspections that include searching for ghosts.

I'm spending some slow time developing a new marketing theme.

What you think?

Click to Enlarge

39.82 KB

On second thought, maybe I should just go read a history book!

-

I'm actually at a loss . . .

[Inspectorjoe]

Click to Enlarge

39.82 KB

Hey Erby, do you have a long-lost twin in Pennsylvania?

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/allento ... white.html