Head scratcher.

[Robert Jones]

The seller's decided to get a roof cert prior to listing their home. For some reason the roofer would not "certify" the flat roof and actually recommended replacement. My bet is that he didn't even walk up to the flat roof area cause I see nothing wrong with it. He "certified" the shingles and wanted $1200 to replace the flat roof materials.

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[John Kogel]

I'll bet he didn't want to warranty those plumbing flashings. That's where the leaks will start.

Since he wants to replace the plumbing flashings, well, might as well do it all over.

Maybe he saw trouble where the roof joins the wall as well.

[Neal Lewis]

Why do you suppose those roof vents are so low on the roof, rather up toward the ridge?

[Robert Jones]

On the opposite(north) side, the vents are closer to the ridge. There were no soffits/eave vents installed as the home was 70 yrs old.

The flat roof joined onto the top of the gabled roof as it was an addition. I have added a pic of the attic "cavity" where you can see, kinda, how it was tied in. I gave my clients the full run down on those plumbing boots and the chances for leaking and the need for periodic maintenance etc...

[John Kogel]

Thanks, Robert. In your attic pic, the heels of the old rafters are hanging below the ridge board, ridge board too narrow. Might have been too narrow for 70 years, good old Douglas fir. []

[Bill Kibbel]

The seller's decided to get a roof cert prior to listing their home. For some reason the roofer would not "certify" the flat roof and actually recommended replacement. My bet is that he didn't even walk up to the flat roof area cause I see nothing wrong with it.

Are you being sarcastic?

[Robert Jones]

It was a bit tongue and cheek yes, but as far as the roofing material goes, it didn't appear to need replacement, in my opinion. The seams were well sealed, the boots around the vents were not deteriorated, and there was no granule loss on the asphalt roll roofing.

What am I missing?

[Bill Kibbel]

I just uploaded an excellent guide on flashing details to the TIJ file library.

It's now here: https://inspectorsjournal.com/forum/Lin ... oto&id=122

[Jim Katen]

It was a bit tongue and cheek yes, but as far as the roofing material goes, it didn't appear to need replacement, in my opinion. The seams were well sealed, the boots around the vents were not deteriorated, and there was no granule loss on the asphalt roll roofing.

What am I missing?

Well, there's the fact that it's asphalt roll roofing. You shouldn't use that stuff over a house -- or anything you want to remain dry for that matter.

Just based on the pic you posted, I recommend tearing it off and replacing it.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

[Brandon Whitmore]

I agree it has issues. Penetrations are wrong, perimeter flashing does not appear to be done right, and it looks like the overlying courses were face nailed-- am I seeing that correctly?

[Marc]

I think the nailing that is seen in the 2nd photo is how Jim figured out that it's roll roofing and not 'torch down'. Roll roofing belongs back on the vender's shelves where it can sit for eternity.

Marc

[Ben H]

I just uploaded an excellent guide on flashing details to the TIJ file library.

It's now here: https://inspectorsjournal.com/forum/Lin ... oto&id=122

Don't mean to hijack, but I keep getting a several errors while trying to view this PDF. Just me?[:-censore

[Tom Raymond]

Works fine for me. That is a nice document, but I question the source. Is IKO regarded any better on the commercial side than they are on residential? Their residential roofing products are junk.

Tom

[Ben H]

Hmm...try to flip through the pages. It opens and loads fine for me, but when I try to read through it, I start getting the error messages.

[Bill Kibbel]

That is a nice document, but I question the source. Is IKO regarded any better on the commercial side than they are on residential? Their residential roofing products are junk.

I posted it because of the detailed drawings of proper installation - not 'cuz I like IKO products.

I keep getting a several errors while trying to view this PDF

It opens and loads fine for me, but when I try to read through it, I start getting the error messages.

Everyone here up to reader version 8?

Well, there's the fact that it's asphalt roll roofing.

Holy crap - that's even worse! I guess that 'splains all the exposed nails.

[Ben H]

Adobe Reader 9 here.

[Marc]

Adobe Reader 9 here.

I've got version 9 and I've no trouble.

Ben, try uninstalling your Adobe Reader, restart your computer then install it again from the Adobe site.

Marc

[Robert Jones]

Ok, so I have humbled myself to my client, but I was always under the impression that roll roofing was Ok for flat to very low pitch roofs. Is it limited to garages and sheds?

[hausdok]

Hi Robert,

While I don't like roll roofing any better than anyone else does, I have to disagree with the brethren when they say that any roll roofing is garbage. It is perfectly good for what it's designed to do and when installed correctly it works fine. When asphalt roofing was first invented and canvas roofs went out of favor it was a common alternative to wood shingles.

Will it last as long as other types of roofs? No. Can it remain perfectly serviceable for six to ten years? Yeah, it can if it's properly maintained.

The job is reporting current condition. If a component is being used in the correct application, is installed correctly, is functioning the way it's intended to function and is within the expected design life of the component we should be telling folks that, not condemning the product outright because we just don't like it.

There's nothing wrong with letting folks know that a product is of lesser quality than what's typically/commonly used but that shouldn't change the facts of correct installation/functioning as intended/within it's normally expected service life. If the client wants to upgrade he/or she can always ask the seller to do so and if the seller refuses can pay to have it done; or, wait until it wears out and needs replacement.

That said, that's some pretty abysmal vent flashing or lack of vent flashings there and that roof looks like it's less than 1:12. That stuff isn't supposed to be installed with concealed fasteners at less than 1:12 and with unconcealed fasteners at less than 2:12. What is the white stuff at the edges of the roof; is that gravel stop flashings?

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Marc]

I write up roll roofing where installed on dwellings everytime I see it, but that's only because the rows of fasteners are 3' apart with no other attachment in between. High winds from hurricanes cause it to lift off of the deck. If it doesn't tear off, it creases.

Marc

[Robert Jones]

Thanks for the reply Mike. It was flashing on the edges, yes. While I knew it was an inferior product, I just couldn't see calling it out for replacement in it's current condition. It was a very small section of a roof that had been modified from the original state to allow for more headroom on at the second floor level. The flashing around the vents, was more of a "sealant" type material rather than a "boot".

[hausdok]

I write up roll roofing where installed on dwellings everytime I see it, but that's only because the rows of fasteners are 3' apart with no other attachment in between. High winds from hurricanes cause it to lift off of the deck. If it doesn't tear off, it creases.

Marc

Well, ensuring that it's installed with the rows running parallel to the prevailing winds and adding reinforcement strips perpendicular to the long axis of the material with double-rows of nails with fiber washers would improve performance. Hell, if you covered a roof with IWS and then applied a layer of that stuff over the top as UV protection it might perform as well or equal to modbit. Maybe not. Anyway, I won't be experimenting with it any time soon.

This stuff is used plenty of places overseas still and seems to do a pretty good job where it's installed properly.

We've essentially forgotten the old ways that worked so well for so long.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

[Bill Kibbel]

I have never had a problem telling folks that this crap shouldn't have been installed on their house. On a few occasions, I've also been the one to discover roll roofing installed when "rubber roof" was on the invoice.

There's a couple large inspection firms that bless this stuff as "common for city homes" and "performs well on low-slopes with an expected life of 15 years". Some of it is only smooth-surfaced roll roofing with a silver coating. When their clients become sellers, they're really pissed when the new buyer's inspector calls it out.

I once had a document, from (I think) the Asphalt Roofing Manufacturers Assoc., that I used in litigation. It basically stated that asphalt roll roofing is intended for underlayment and flashing details on residential buildings. It also stated that mineral-surfaced roll roofing is only used as a primary roof on "secondary use" buildings.

[hausdok]

I have never had a problem telling folks that this crap shouldn't have been installed on their house. On a few occasions, I've also been the one to discover roll roofing installed when "rubber roof" was on the invoice.

There's a couple large inspection firms that bless this stuff as "common for city homes" and "performs well on low-slopes with an expected life of 15 years". Some of it is only smooth-surfaced roll roofing with a silver coating. When their clients become sellers, they're really pissed when the new buyer's inspector calls it out.

I once had a document, from (I think) the Asphalt Roofing Manufacturers Assoc., that I used in litigation. It basically stated that asphalt roll roofing is intended for underlayment and flashing details on residential buildings. It also stated that mineral-surfaced roll roofing is only used as a primary roof on "secondary use" buildings.

So,

if it's only allowed to be an underlayment, how do we reconcile it with IRC 905.5?

OT - OF!!!

M.

[Jim Katen]

. . . Will it last as long as other types of roofs? No. Can it remain perfectly serviceable for six to ten years? Yeah, it can if it's properly maintained. . .

What's proper maintenance for roll roofing?

- Jim Katen, Oregon