Jim Katen

Originally posted by Douglas Hansen

. . .

I used to think this was a rare problem. That you've seen it twice before makes me think we need the product these guys in Hayward are making.

I see it up here now & then when the meter is downhill from the street. It's sort of like an artisian well effect.

Note the attached pictures. On this house, I speculated that the culprit was rainwater entering the conduit way up the pole, near the transformer.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Download Attachment: Martin 01.jpg

61.8 KB

Download Attachment: Martin 05.jpg

62.4 KB

Originally posted by a46geo

Jim,

With the exception of the Lennox Pulse and Borg Warner glycol furnaces (both pretty much history), . . .

George,

I was unaware that Borg Warner made glycol units. Were they similar to the Amana ones?

Here's a picture of the first Amana glycol unit I ever inspected. Turned up the thermostat, then took this picture.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Download Attachment: Amana_Glycol.jpg

57 KB

Originally posted by Jim Morrison

Has anyone seen enough of these units to have formed an opinion about them? They're supposed to have a lifetime warranty on the stainless steel heat exchanger. I saw my first one this morning.

Whaddya know?

I've seen several of them. They're on par with the condensing furnaces currently being made by Carrier, Lennox & Trane. They do not have a reputation as pieces of shite.

However, as George pointed out, the condensate will eventually get them all in the end.

I don't really like any of the condensing furnaces. The small increase in efficiency just doesn't seem to be worth the more expensive and more frequent service that these things need. Seems to me that they've been engineered a little too close to the edge.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by kurt

I love looking @ the monster boilers. How many of you guys get to look @ stuff like this?[:-bonc01]

83 years old & still going strong, albeit w/ some major welding of the end plates, new firetubes here & there, & a new mudsill in front. The boiler room was spotless (or at least as spotless as a boiler room gets). I like the way the engineer kept the paint. I just try to imagine what it must have been like back when some guy spent his life feeding tons of coal into these suckers.......

I only see stuff like that very rarely. Here's one from a few years ago. It was probably about 90 years old. I didn't get to actually inspect this one, I was part of a 5-man team that did this building. My participation was limited to the electrical, potable water and roof systems.

Our boiler guy was not complimentary about the condition of the boiler and made some insulting remarks about its recent maintainence within earshot of the super who had been maintaining it. Since I was just 'hired help' on this job, I stayed out of it. They were hollering at each other and trading threats while I quietly inspected the leaking water heaters and kept one eye out for flying wrenches.

Our guy was claiming that the cheap s.o.b.s had a tank full of the wrong kind of oil and, as a result, the burner wouldn't fire until the whole thing was emptied and the fuel system cleaned. The super argued that the grade of oil had nothing to do with it and that the boiler wouldn't fire because our guy didn't know what he was doing.

Ah, the joys of being a subcontractor.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Download Attachment: Grotto 10.jpg

83.47 KB

Originally posted by Terence McCann

Well…. The wife and I went to the NARI home improvement show at the IX center yesterday and I stopped by the Carrier booth and talked to one of the tech’s about the VAV furnace.

Carrier calls their technology the “Thermidistatâ€

Originally posted by Norm

I believe UL lists whatever was submitted to them for testing. I had a personal experience with this several years ago. At my own home I installed a light source box for fiber-optic lighting in my swimming pool. The unit the cord and plug with which it was tested and listed by UL. I wasn't entirely comfortable with the exposed plug in connection and hardwired the unit using liquidtite conduit. The electrical inspector refused to allow this arrangement since it violated the UL listing. I believe the same would apply in the case of a modified A/C system unless the system had been tested in conjunction with the particular component which is added in the field.

If I'm wrong please correct me. That's what learning is all about.

NORM SAGE

Well, here's how I see it. Your light box is like a Lego. UL lists the Lego and says it'll be safe if it's not altered and if it's installed under a certain set of conditions. You changed the Lego in a way that UL's tests didn't anticipate, so the listing no longer applied. The inspector was correct to smack your butt, even if you had managed to make a safer Lego.

A heating system is more like a collection of Legos. As long as you use each one according to the terms of its listing, and as long as you don't alter them, there are any number of ways that they can be assembled in the field. The manufacturers usually have long lists of which Legos can be used with which other Legos. Some combinations are cheaper, some are more efficient and some are non-sensical, but still allowed.

Of course, it's possible to violate the UL listings in any number of ways, I'm just saying that it's also possible to alter the components in a heat pump or AC system without violating them.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by chrisprickett

Sir George (or anybody else who knows what they're talking about)[]

I have a warranty inspection next week. The owner is suspicious because he paid for two upgraded 14 SEER units. The units SAY they are 13.5. the HVAC guy (according to the owner) said they add a "coil" to the units bringing them up to 14. He described the "coil" as something small enough to fit in your hand.

It sounds like it might be BS, whatcha think?[:-bigeyes]

Not necessarily. I'm not at all familiar with York equipment; there's little of it around here. However, you can tweek the seer ratings of most AC and heat pump systems in a bunch of different ways.

The first thing that came to mind when you mentioned something small enough to fit in your hand is a thermal expansion valve. It's not a 'coil' but it will boost the seer (if the system didn't have one inside & out already).

Adding a variable speed blower will also boost seers. They're becoming quite common, even up here where humidity isn't much of a concern.

One other thing. I might be wrong about this, but UL lists components of these systems, not the systems themselves. It seems to me that an installer can add all sorts of options to these things without affecting the UL listings. HVAC equipment is probably the most customizable system in the house.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Required on wood shakes.

Not required on wood shingles.

Many people don't know the difference between these two items.

Maybe the people who've been giving you conflicting advice were talking about different products.

A hand-split cedar shake roof installed without felt *will* leak. Particularly if they're heavy shakes.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Ellen,

I see the situation you describe almost daily. The attached picture shows the worst-case damage scenario around here. Of course we don’t get the same kind of driving rain that you folks have, but it’s pretty wet up here all the same.

I find that about one house in 2,000 has damage this bad from this condition. The spike has to be angled downward and the ferrule has to be set in just such a manner as to direct the water into the spike hole. Generally, gutters sag within a few minutes of being installed, giving the spikes an upward cant. This alone stops the water from flowing into the fascia in most cases.

Bottom line, I’ve got bigger fish to fry on most houses.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Download Attachment: 141-4113_IMG.JPG

77.82 KB

Originally posted by Brian G.

I have XP Pro, and it's been pretty good. I have to say though, I get really pissed-off at Word sometimes when I'm trying to write text and it keeps assuming all kinds of things that I don't want. Every line starts with a capital letter, surely you want this indented, this, that, and the other. I'm sure there are business / corporate types who use and understand all that junk, but it just gets in my way. I'd love to have a very vanilla version that just does what the hell you tell it to do, nothing more. [:-banghead]

Brian G.

Computers Are Stupid, They Only Know What You Tell Them [:-graduate]

Actually, you can make it as vanilla as you want. Most people just don't bother.

By doing a custom install and disabling several options in "Tools - Options," you can turn it into a pretty lean machine.

BTW, Walter used to talk about "Windows Lite." It was a stripped down version of the operating system. Had nothing to do with Word.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by Brian G.

Most of the time when I get on a fairly steep roof, all I can do is walk the ridges. Most (if not all) already have cracks in the cap shingles from being bent over the steep angle.

Is this a problem? Are these shingles more likely to fail early and need replacement? What do you gentlemen say about it in your reports?

Brian G.

Getting on 'Em If I Can, Movin' Slow [:-slug]

It’s not much of a problem. Depending on how bad they are, they might need to be replaced before the rest of the roof, though.

FWIW, they don’t do this if the roofer takes the time to warm them up enough. I’ve seen some that were installed in winter that were in need of replacement within a year or two. The roofer had installed them while they were icy-cold.

Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by pete

Why are you carrying the fuseblocks?

Well, I have a habit of pulling the darn things out to check on them and sometimes they fall to pieces in my hand. It's nice to have a replacement handy. Now, before anyone goes chiding me about this one, I should make it clear that I don't endorse this behavior. In fact, I routinely advise other inspectors *not* to pull old fuse blocks for this very reason. However, for me and my own business, I decided long ago that this is the way I want to do things. What can I say? It's a macho thing. (Mano a Mano with the fuse block -- blood in the sand and all that.)

. . . I also think that most discussions about liability miss the NUMBER ONE reason people sue--poor customer service.

In one of my prior careers I was an innner city Paramedic and there were alot of studies that said that if you were nice to the patient you could make tons of mistakes and it never turned into a complaint. I have seen a great amount poor quality healthcare that people tolerate because the provider was polite, friendly, gave the person dignity and conversly be cold, distant, caring and you could give textbook perfect care and see a never ending tide of litigation.

Be professional, be as smart as you can, admit what you do not know and then go get the answer and deliver it promptly. Good service= happy customers...

If you are the most technically proficient inspector and you don't have what I like to call the "Dog and Pony Show" I think your career will be limited.

That's really excellent advice. I've certainly found it to be true in my own business. However, I woudn't call it a 'dog & pony show.' That implies insincerity, and it sounds from your post like you're very sincere with your clients. How about 'the common touch'?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by Norm

When I remove a dead front cover and find the fasteners to be pointed rather than blunt I don't reinstall the cover. I simply leave the cover and the fasteners in proximity to the panel, tape a piece of cardboard or whatever over the panel, and inform the owner of the situation. If you re-install the pointed fasteners you are, in effect, condoning the defective condition you are (I hope) reporting.

NORM SAGE

See, now if you had a nice big box of panel cover screws, you wouldn't have to bother with all that fuss.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by Rob Amaral

. . . either wear glasses . . . or squint . . .

I love it! The Clint Eastwood inspection technique.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by pete

George,

I actually let everyone know what I am doing. I want them to know that we are watching out for them. SOmeone will sue, but hey thats what insurance and lawyers are for.

I am going to try dougs suggestion. I keep looking in the electrical section, I will look with the fasteners.

Thans

Pete

Pete,

Both Home Depot and Lowes out here have them. They're in the electrical section along with terminal bars, grounding lugs, etc. They carry only the Siemens style, but those work well on most panels. They have the balls to charge $1 each for them though.

I'm certain that you could order them through a local electrical supply house, but they'll probably have to special order them.

I collect old panels, so I have a pretty good assortment of old screws. If I'm in the mood, I replace the sharp screws I find. If not, I don't.

Another thing I've found useful is to carry an assortment of old fuseblocks.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Ellen,

No, I don’t. But if my local code said what yours does, I might. (In fact, I know I would on new construction inspections.) Sadly, my local code is entirely silent on the matter.

The thing is, I don’t believe you’re going to find a manometer that reads down to one or two or three pascals for anything like a reasonable amount of money. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s a *really small* amount of pressure. Most manometers I’ve seen measure in ‘inches of water,’ a much more gross measurement that won’t do you much good.

If you find one for a couple of hundred dollars or less, let me know.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Scott,

At the risk of making you feel even more paranoid, your application fails to ask the gender of the applicant.

(It's a new world out there.)

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by Chad Fabry

. . . I don't get permits because I feel if I want to dig a hole on my land and partially fill it with pipe and other apparatus, it's my right. . .

You know, it's a funny thing, that's almost exactly what my neighbor said when they caught him. It seems his bootleg septic system contaminated the local aquifer affecting the wells of no less than 7 neighbors.

That's dangerous stuff around here, since most disputes are settled with firearms. (Except for the itinerant population who settle things with machetes.)

- Jim Katen, Oregon (Rural)

800xp,

Other than riding in commercial airplanes, I know absolutely nothing about aircraft. If I trained with you for a month, would I:

1. Be able to properly inspect one?

2. Tell a prospective purchaser if the major systems were working properly?

3. Accurately and reliably evaluate many different types from many different eras?

4. Have the respect of the people who build and maintain them?

If the answer to any of these questions is no, how long would it take for me to become proficient enough to change the ‘no’ into a ‘yes’? Would I be able to do it without actually working on them?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by swarga

Here is my boilerplate. Beware it is very long. I stole most of it and I would give credit to the person that wrote it if I could remember who I got it from.

Scott, you may give me credit. I wrote it. I accept Visa & Mastercard.

-Jim Katen, Oregon

KY Ted, the method you describe is more useful for troubleshooting an electric furnace that has a problem than it is for determining if it’s working properly in the first place. It won’t tell you if current is flowing through a coil, for instance. All you need for a thorough inspection of an electric furnace is a clamp-on ammeter and a multimeter (or a combination meter). It’s easy to test them but it’s also easy to electrocute yourself or cause damage to the equipment. No offense, but based on your limited understanding of these beasts, I’d suggest that you limit yourself to a visual inspection of the furnace and a reading of the TD. If you want to go further, find a friendly HVAC tech who’s willing to have you tag along with him for a few days. Buy him some nice lunches, carry the heavy stuff and you’ll learn a lot.

David, taking the amp draw at the distribution panel can work, but it has limited value. You don’t get that hands-on gratification that you get from working directly with the equipment. (Kind of like phone sex.) Personally, I don’t see a lot of difference in risk between opening a distribution panel and opening an electrical compartment in a furnace cabinet. The real limitation of this method is that, when you find fewer coils firing than you’d expect, you don’t know if it’s by design or if something’s broken. If you’re in the furnace cabinet, 30 seconds of probing with a multimeter will tell the answer and you can save your client an unnecessary $80 service call.

George, measuring the rise is certainly an option. It’s probably the most sensible protocol for those who’re uncomfortable with working around live equipment or who don’t want to risk exceeding the standards by too much. However, setting the stat high will not always bring on all the coils, so you won’t necessarily get the max rise as stated on the data plate. In most modern heat pump systems, for example, the electric elements are controlled not only by the stat but by an outdoor thermostat which limits the number of coils that will fire depending on the outdoor temperature. On a day with moderate outdoor temperatures, you’ll find that at least one coil doesn’t work. Without access to the electrical compartment, you have no way of checking to see if the coil is receiving power, or of checking the coil’s continuity. The Rheem/Ruud line uses a watt restrictor instead of an outdoor thermostat. This reads the outgoing air temp and throttles back the heat strips accordingly. From the cabinet, you can see all of this.

Personally, I like to open the cabinet, see the toasty wires, determine exactly what is and isn’t working and give my client a full & meaningful description of the furnace’s condition. However, that certainly isn’t required by any of the home inspection standards I’ve seen. A careful visual inspection along with a notation of the temperature rise easily satisfies the ASHI & NAHI standards for the more demure among us.

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Gee, Pete, I don't see Oregon on the list. Way to go!

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by admin

Hi Kurt,

I recommend it all the time on any home over 50 years old in one particular area of Seattle where I know a lot of the waste lines are vitrified clay.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Same here. Although, lately, the realtors are a step ahead of me. They frequently schedule the video guy at the same time as the home inspection.

Maybe it's just me, but I think those things are really cool. What do you suppose they cost? (If I buy one, I promise to use it only for good, never for evil.)

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Originally posted by dlee

. . . This unit had no discharge line at all, so I called it as needing further inspection by somebody smarter than me about such stuff. Don't all systems need a discharge line for something?

-David Lee in VA

A water softener needs a discharge line. Are you sure that this wasn't just a filtration system?

- Jim Katen, Oregon

Kurt,

I doubt your campaign will succeed. There are too many mud heads out there that don't give a damn about what happens to the brick after they've been paid.

We don't have a lot of brick residences around here, but we do have a lot of old brick chimneys. The condition in your second photo is rampant here. The fix is to grind it out and install still more type N. Job security and all that.

There used to be a local company that truely understood brick in all its nuances -- McElhennon Plastering. They were a family business from the old country, the old man had a brogue so thick you could cut it with a knife. Sadly, they're now out of business.

If I needed a decent tuck pointing job done, I’d hire a chimney sweep rather than a mason.

- Jim Katen, Oregon