a46geo

My money is on Rob's guess. Mike's comment is nothing more than some old police training film flash back. Give Chad enough time and he'll get it to start and drive it away.

If it was not just evidence of a PAST (repaired) problem, I would write; "This photo shows the evidence of flame roll out. I measured a XX PPM CO reading spilling into the house. This roll out can be caused by improper venting, a down draft condition, a problem with the tank itself or an obstruction in the flue or chimney. This roll out is not only a fire risk, dangerous (deadly) fumes are entering the dwelling. I have turned the gas to the appliance off. Call a licensed plumber or heating contractor to correct the problem and restore service." Yes I know that many will jump all over that approach, but nobody gets hurt this way. I would rather be hauled into court for over reacting than failure to act at all. George

Kurt, Yes.... I think this question was really meant for the home repair forum. www.homerepairforum.com/forum/default.asp Perhaps it was posted on The Inspectors Journal by mistake. George

Gee Pete, I forgot about this. I did not tell you that the PVC is concentric. It is BOTH intake and exhaust. The intake is around the outside circumference along the wall. Sorry, George

Pete, I'm not board, this is a learning experience. While having dinner, I thought about freezing too. Interesting, it seems these units have no warranty and there is a good chance freezing will destroy them long before they would normally wear out. My first glance of these photos, I thought the intake was what I now think is a dryer vent. The last photo shows a flapper which seems to rule out intake. The PVC (I think) is exhaust. No matter how you slice it, this is not a proper situation. George

Pete, I am looking at this thing again, Is that a dryer vent? It looks like the flapper exhales. If so are you sure that is the furnace intake? Could it be the exhaust and the intake is somewhere else, or maybe the furnace is drawing indoor air? George

Pete, Sounds perfect.

Pete, I guess "highly" is a subjective term. The condensate from the furnace is about as acidic as tomato juice. Years ago, Lennox taught us "slightly" was the word to use. I remember having this debate over on the other forum. To some, tomato juice is "highly" acidic. But to answer your question, it will in time eat through copper. It has also eaten through some old cast iron floor drains. George

[quote]Originally posted by pete SO far I am thinking disconnects are not readily accessible and TPR places people in jeopardy. OH-I almost forgot the intake for the hi-efficiency Trane furnace is only 24inches away from the exhause for the water heater. That can't be right? Tell me what you think... Pete pete@inspectyourhome.net Pete, Just when you think that you have seen everything. I did not know that a tankless could be rated for outdoor installation. But, to answer your question..HECK NO! All of your concerns are valid issues. The 24 inches between the intake and exhaust would be OK if they were the same height or the intake was lower than the exhaust, but as this is.. NO WAY. Isn't New York the state that licenses no one? I am NOT trying to be political here, I am really asking if just any hack can install a hot water tank. If so, does any one inspect these installations? If there is indeed an inspection, who pulled the permit? Brian, DSL is $29.95 When I converted over, the savings from not having to a second phone line actually made DSL cheaper. I was paying $13.95 for the line and $19.95 for the ISP. These photos were big, but they downloaded in about 5 seconds. George

Hey Kevin, Welcome to the forum. George

NOPE, I NEVER saw anything like that. I sure would like to see how it works. Where are the baffles? What keeps all of the "heat" from going straight up the chimney? What vermiculite? I don't see it. George

SAGE ADVICEid="size6"> sort of stands out, don't you think? Then there is; A Snow-birds-eye-view

Dan, There is a new (at least new to me) competitor here in my area. Thumbs Up Home inspections . I am not kidding. That's the name. Now doesn't that conjure up an interesting picture in your mind's eye? Is this the kind of company that Norm was writting about? George

Actually Dan, Norm is one of the good guys. I do disagree with him however that nothing can be done about the problem. I think that the great State Massachusetts has taken a very significant first step. If we can't correct the problem on our own, then we deserve, and will eventually get government regulation. Perhaps branding will serve to expidite regulation. George

No Jim, you are correct, it was Amana. Back in the 80's I worked for a company that sold York. Our second line was Amana. I stand corrected. My wife (whats-her-name) says my memory is terrible. I guess you just proved her right. However, your photo does bring back some BAD memories. George

Jim, With the exception of the Lennox Pulse and Borg Warner glycol furnaces (both pretty much history), the rest of the 90% market is pretty much the same. 8 manufacturers make 100 different brands. Each brand has a very colorful brochure that tries to make you think that it is something special. The fact of the matter is that they pretty much all use White Rogers, Honeywell or Robert Shaw controls. They all cool the stack temperature down to around 100 degrees, all have induced draft, all use stainless steel and they all have provided a lot more work for servicemen. The Ruud can use either indoor or outdoor air for combustion. If you see that it is drawing indoor air, it may be the buyer was looking for the lowest bidder and the contractor cut that expense. IF that is the case, you may want to point out that with a 28 or 30 (depending who you listen to) to 1 ratio, it may be worth while to use outdoor air instead of using the air inside the house that they just paid to heat. George Now having said all of that, I did a google search on the Ruud Achiever 90 Plus. I didn't find anything special about it. But I am curious, why did you ask? Do you know something that I don't?

Jim, What do you want to know? All 90% efficient furnaces are condensing furnaces. The condensate is about as acidic as tomato juice. This acid eventually eats through a stainless steel heat exchanger. The lifetime warranty is on the heat exchanger only, not parts or labor. Lennox started this about 15 years ago or so and every manufacturer had to follow to remain competitive. The kicker here is that the labor costs to replace the heat exchanger is in the $1200 neighborhood. Most dealers are pretty good at selling folks on the idea that it is often throwing good money after bad to change the heat exchanger on a 10 plus year old furnace. Since these HX's don't usually eat through until after 10 to 12 years, the warranty is sort of academic. George

Son of a Gun, How do you do that? The only thing different now is Burlee was bought out by Interland. Under either name, the service and customer support is EXCELLENT. Joe really did his home work. HEY TED, With Microsoft Front Page 2002, you do it yourself.

For anyone interested in firing up your own web site, the step by step directions were printed in the Journal of Light Construction about 3 or so years ago. I can't imagine having a site that I cannot enter any time I choose, change, add or delete whatever I want and pay less than $150 a year. I don't remember the exact issue or the author of the article, perhaps Mike can tell you how to do a search. George

Dan, Well, of course your looney... Think about it...You think you live in ..KANSAS city ... MISSOUI.. How could there possibly be such a place? Its what they call "an-ox-of-a-moron or something to that effect. George

I guess its different strokes for different folks with a web site too. I don't really expect my web site to generate business, although it does. What I try to accomplish with a web site is to sell them before they actually call me. I advertise my site then my site advertises me and my convoluted philosophy. IF and that is a big IFid="size5"> I am sure, they read 60% of my web site, they are no longer "shopping" for an inspector, they are actually looking for me. It also works very well when past customers refer me by way of my web site. I never get a call asking me how much do I charge. Since I am reduced to using an answering machine, it eliminates hang ups too. They always leave a message with a request for me to call. Without my web site and everything I have stolen borrowed from you guys, I would be out of business. At the very least I would be back to fielding all those "how much do you charge" phone calls. George

Kurt, I know this must have been in the windy city, but I declare, it looks exactly Like a unit in downtown Detroit. I don't remember if it was the Fisher Building or the Penobscot Building. I changed the burner motor & relay and cleaned the tubes, just like in your photo. (about 10 years ago) This is uncanny George

Dave, Boy, do I agree. The control I have over my own site is unlimited. I can change anything I choose any time I choose to do it. I own my own domain name and the $125 a year cost is a steal. If you don't have a web site.....get one. BUT, DIY. George

Lets not confuse the issue. "Make up air" and "combustion air" are technically two separate issues. Combustion air is needed to burn fuel. Where a gas flame is the concern, primary air, (that which mixes with the fuel and is ignited) secondary air,(the atmosphere in which the burn takes place) and draft air are all part of combustion air. Back in the 70's Lennox taught a 28 to 1 ratio for natural gas. Now days you often see 30 to 1. Restrict this air and you could have a very serious problem. Cut it off entirely and you will have no flame. Make up air on the other hand is external (usually outside) air introduced to replace exhausted air to keep the exhausting process balanced. Like in a commercial kitchen, welding shop or indoor gun range. Make up air under many circumstances has to be "conditioned" (heated or cooled) before it is introduced into the space. An air to air heat exchanger is one example of a make up air system. The only reason I am bringing this up is that I have seen several instances on HI forums where the terms were interchanged. They are not interchangable. In todays litigious society, and to keep form un-impressing a client that happens to know the difference, I thought some would like to know. Please, no offense meant. George

Dan, You forgot to mention that NAHI has a MUCH better looking logo too. I have been looking for a reason to NOT join NAHI, I haven't found one yet, I am about to give up. George