Sodapop

Hmm, don't you mean 2 ungrounded, one grounded and one grounding? - Jim Katen, Oregon Only if not in a subpanel. Ground - The Earth Grounded (Grounding) - Connected to ground or to a conductive body that extends to the ground Grounded Conductor - A system or circuit conductor that is intentionally grounded. Neutral Conductor - The conductor connected to the neutral point of a system that is intended to carry current under normal conditions. A subpanel needs to have the grounds and neutrals seperated. The bonding screw is NOT installed thereby not bonding the neutral to the ground. Since the neutral in the subpanel is not connected to ground or to a conductive body that extends to ground there would be only 1 grounded conductor. The bare ground in the SE cable would be the "intentional ground" therefore (3 ungrounded and 1 grounded). No. That's not correct. Just because the neutral is not connected to the ground in the sub panel, that doesn't suddenly make it an ungrounded conductor. It's still connected to the ground at its point of origination. It is a grounded conductor. The fact that it floats in a subpanel doesn't change that. - Jim Katen, Oregon When I wrote post #27 I tried reading too much into the Code. I tried to correct my post #27 with post #29 and hope that I clarified my position.

None of the posted pictures meet NEC 2008 250.70 as one of the approved methods. Add a $3.00 water pipe clamp and make it compliant.

This is what I'm trying to say in post #27 The grounded conductor is grounded only at the main panel and then must be insulated and isolated from ground at any subpanels, devices, etc. The equipment grounding conductor can be bare and is connected to all metal parts, panel enclosures, etc., throughout the system. If you have a bare conductor at a subpanel it is the equipment grounding conductor.

Hmm, don't you mean 2 ungrounded, one grounded and one grounding? - Jim Katen, Oregon Only if not in a subpanel. Ground - The Earth Grounded (Grounding) - Connected to ground or to a conductive body that extends to the ground Grounded Conductor - A system or circuit conductor that is intentionally grounded. Neutral Conductor - The conductor connected to the neutral point of a system that is intended to carry current under normal conditions. A subpanel needs to have the grounds and neutrals seperated. The bonding screw is NOT installed thereby not bonding the neutral to the ground. Since the neutral in the subpanel is not connected to ground or to a conductive body that extends to ground there would be only 1 grounded conductor. The bare ground in the SE cable would be the "intentional ground" therefore (3 ungrounded and 1 grounded). The 3 ungrounded conductors are intentionally an ungrounded conductor. The 1 grounded conductor intentionally is a grounded conductor.

They couldn't afford an electrician after having a new roof put on.

Have a sump pump installed. No amount of water is acceptable in my opinion.

In regards to question in OP. NO! See NEC 2008 or earlier 312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices. As far as to why Home Inspectors should care: Although I am not familiar with what a phase coupler does, the NEC forbids such installations as I noted above. In regards to the warranty of the product, some homeowners may go after the manufacturer of the product when damage to wiring in the panel occurs. The manufacturer is simply protecting themself from liability. Electricians, myself excluded, probably think that since 312.8 allows it if space permits, that it permits it period. Most of them don't delve into the Code more than they have to. Most panels don't have the required space to allow for such a connection anyway.

Subpanel should have been fed with a 4 conductor SE cable. ( 3 ungrounded, 1 grounded) Each line should be phased, not according code just personal preference. Insulated neutral tied to neutral busbar. Seperate grounding busbar should have been installed. No bonding of neutral busbar to panel since it's a subpanel and ground and neutrals need to be isolated. If posible, have a new feeder run to subpanel and install properly.

In a previous home that I owned, the GFCI for the outside receptacles and the bathrooms was in a water heater closet. The water heater closet was in the garage. The GFCI was mounted high but above the water heater which to me which somewhat inaccessible. When we first bought the house and the GFCI tripped I couldn't find it. When I found the door to the water heater closet, it jumped out in front of me.

Thanks for the support. Although I spend time on another forum, related to electricians, I check in here every day or so. These forums help keep my head in the game. (Code).

I've seen worse. But I would still upgrade the panel and service.

What is an "exterior rated" cable? Some UF cables are listed as sunlight resistant, but they still can't be used like that. - Jim Katen, Oregon I'm not sure how they can get away with that since NEC 334.10(B)(1) states "..for normally dry locations..." The 2008 NEC bans type NM cable with in such cases with an addition to 334.12(B)(4) "..shall not be used...in wet or damp locations."

I did an estimate on this for a service upgrade for a real estate agent. Sad thing is, the prospective homeowner thought it was OK. They didn't want an upgrade. Good luck with homeowner's insurance.

These photos any help? [

Too many code violations. I think your are in your rights and covering yourself liability wise to say what you did. I would demo everything and bring everything up to current code standards.

I think the basic rule of thumb regarding this issue is to base one article and back it up with another article.

I disagree. You have to read the code in context. Article 240 is the article that deals with the requirements of overcurrent protection. The requirements that apply to panelboards are in article 408. Different articles, different subjects, different code making panels. - Jim Katen, Oregon Basically my point is this: How can you have breakers without having a panel? If Art. 240 refers to breakers it should also automatically include a panel. We seem to agree on a few issues and not on others. No harm done. We should learn on these forums as well. [^]

There are no exceptions other than the fact that older installations, before 240.24(E) was adopted, aren't required to comply. As far as whether or not it *has to be* relocated, well, that's up to the AHJ. - Jim Katen, Oregon 240.24(E) Not Located in Bathrooms In dwelling units and guest rooms or guest suites of hotels and motels, overcurrent devicesid="green">, other than supplementory overcurrent protection, shall not be located in bathrooms. NEC Definition - DEVICE - A unit of an electrical systemid="green"> that carries or controls electric energy as its principal function. The breaker is an overcurrent protection deviceid="green">. Breakers are part of on overall systemid="green"> and are installed in panels. Even though panels aren't mentioned in 240.24(E), by using the words "overcurrent protection" panels are inferred. I agree that the AHJ will probably have the final say on what has to be moved.

NEC 2008 90.5(A) Mandatory Rules Mandatory rules of this code are those that identify actions that are specifically required or prohibited and are characterized by the use the the terms shall or shall not. NEC 2008 110.14(A) Electrical Connections ....Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified. NEC 2008 408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not used for another conductor.

I can see your point regarding "accessory" to a degree. [^] I have purchased these accessories to field install knowing that they would be needed. I generally aalwys seperate my grounds and neutrals anyway. I believe, however, that NEC 2008 408.41 disallows such use for more than one wire. And even though some manufactures allow them, since the NEC does not, the NEC should take precedence. Any Thoughts?[?]

The Cutler Hammer documents all relate to accessory ground bars. The instructions don't relate to neutral wire connections. - Jim Katen, Oregon I'm not sure where you find the wording "accessory" in the PDF documents I posted. (It is listed on their website as grounded) Image Insert: 44.08 KB This photo is from the CH webite. If you look at the terminal block on the left, the neutral and ground wires are both tied in to the same terminal block. Electrically speaking, the neutral and ground bars are the same unless the bonding screw is removed. (Typically done on main lug panels and/or services with disconnects.) I agree with another post that CH worded it wrong. A neutral wire is a grounded conductor. I still think the PDF I previously posted applies to the "more than one wire" diccussion. I would be happy to discuss any other opinions.

Stay away from using you personal name. Find something that will emulate what your business would be about. Look into an Limited Liability Company (LLC) vs. Incorporation (Inc.) I previously had and LLC business. Worked well for use in my state and seperated my personal from my business aspects. Check your state's website for near matches or if is already in use.

Some helpful links. Scroll to bottom for info on more than one conductor... http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/temp ... sequence=1 UL Code Correlation Database http://www.ul.com/regulators/codelink/