Hearthman

http://www.mttaborchimney.com/ for a F.I.R.E. Certified Inspector in Oregon. These inspectors are the only ones actually trained in chimney inspection techniques as part of their certification: www.f-i-r-e-service.com HTH,

WonderBoard has Styrofoam balls, which is why it cannot pass ASTM E-136 for non-combustible material

If it is a factory built fireplace then you go by the clearances in the listed instructions---not the clearances in the building code, which are for masonry site built fireplaces. Don't assume.

Insert woodstove rating plates are typically on the sides or rear of the firebox. With an insert, you would have to swing the stove out onto the hearth extension to get to it. If the stove has a full length listed liner as it should then this would be virtually impossible without disconnecting the liner. BTW, these liners must include the requisite insulation for the clearance to combustibles in the chimney. You would also need proper floor and mantel protection as prescribed in the listed instructions. Most mfrs. make a bay fron inset so who knows what brand this is without the rating plate. If you find an old stove that does not carry markings indicatiing EPA Phase II emissions certification, you should recommend replacement. HTH

The rating plate for HeatNGlo fireplaces is located on the floor of the valve compartment. Looks like a typical 6000 direct vent using the old Simpson Dura-Vent 8-5/8" co-axial pipe. This is a direct vent gas appliance. That vent to the left of the direct vent pipe has nothing to do with this fireplace. HG vent pipe carries a clearance to combustibles of 1" off the sides and bottom; 3" off the top. That penetration must be both components of the listed firestop assembly. If you install it into normal residential construction to the listed instructions, you are in compliance with the current model building codes. Don't overthink factory built fireplaces--they've done the hard part for you. Just learn where to find those rating plates, document the make, model, serial # and hopefully mfg date code so you can research it later back at the office. You can also refer them to an NFI Gas Specialist to inspect and service it. HTH,

Sorry Marc, no you can attach B-vent 'directly' to an appliance collar but having said that, you really should use the listed draft hood connector instead of trying to screw a std. section of B-vent to the collar. I see them all the time where the collar or B-vent get damaged or deformed. Much less likely with the draft hood adapter that was made for that purpose. Hope that clears it up.

The 12" vent rise minimum is referring to the GAMA tables, which are used in both NFPA 54 and the IFGC tables. These vent tables start at 12" because that is the generally accepted minimum vent rise recommended. You still need to run the calculations for sizing the vent connector as well as the common vent. Is that 4" B-vent on a 3" collar? All B-vent *should* have draft hood connectors to single walled pipe or appliance collars & draft hoods, though it is rarely done. The B-vent in this example is improperly supported: elbow off the draft hood, the horizontal run to the manifold, the run from the furnace to the manifold and the common vent elbow before the ceiling firestop assy. The ANSI Stds allow up to 10 min. of flue gas spillage. Doesn't make it smart but that is the std. Are the WH and furnace rated for an alcove installation? The air being disturbed from cars and activities in that garage can cause considerable flame distortion> CO production. I would not laugh at CO in a garage. Since most houses are under depressurization in winter, the CO will infiltrate into the home. This happens through gaps in the walls but it can also permeate drywall. All this was proven back in the '90s in Minn. using tracer gas studies and blower doors. Is the return properly sealed using a mastic listed to UL 181 a/b-FX for the first 10 feet back from the appliance? Anymore pics? HTH,

I've investigated a lot of these cases on the side of a factory built fireplace chase. This is where a southern exposure reflects sunlight onto the side of the chase or dogshed. Often, the siders will cut these panels tight and snap them in, overnail them tight or both. It doesn't take much for the sun to buckle and warp them. If you investigate this, check the length of the panels for play as well as nailing that the panels are loose. HTH,

Each factory built fireplace has its own requirements. Most but not all gas fireplaces do not require non-combustible HX but all woodburners do. This HX protection is comprised of both ember protection and radiant heat protection. This is why those instructions list the various acceptable substitutes. This is based upon testing. Some larger fireplaces require thicker insulation and larger non-comb board. Not all cementitious backer boards have passed ASTM E-136. For instance, Durock has passed it but Wonderboard crumbles apart. Rather than a framed HX, why not just use cinder block? Regardless, you will need to ensure the spark strip extends fully across the fireplace opening half under the Fp and half under the HX. Failure to do this is a major source of fires. BTW, NFPA 211 is a national std. but only enacted as an enforceable code in a few areas. With factory built appliances, you go by the listed instructions first then compare with the code then apply the more stringent requirement. I recommend all H.I.s attend one of Dale's HI one day courses. I've taught it several times now and always have good discussions with the HIs. HTH,

Contact Ryan & Sons in Landing, NJ Bill Ryan: Certified Fireplace Inspector NFI Certified in Gas and Wood Very conscientitous and ethical. HTH, Hearthman

CSST, being listed, can penetrate walls, floors and ceilings as provided in the listing. This usually requires strike protection within 6-8 inches of a fixed point such as where it exits a stud plate. As long as the hose can flop, it is much more resistant to penetration. CSST is listed to LC-1 Flexible appliance connectors are listed to ANSI Z21.24 HTH, Hearthman

NFPA 211 allows interconnection of oil and gas appliances as long as there is sufficient draft for both and both have primary safety controls. Solid fuel must have its own separate flue unless as a listed combination fuel appliance. The smaller vent connector goes above the larger simply to allow a little more vent rise off the smaller appliance. If the vent connectors are manifolded into a liner, it isn't a problem. An unlined flue must always be relined to meet the class of service. HTH, Hearthman

The 50 cubic feet per 1K BTU formula is to determine if it is a confined space or not if you have less than this much volume supplying MUA to the appliance(s) you must provide MUA per the code. Cat. IV furnaces provide their own MUA so this formula does not apply. The sizing of the pvc vent intake is part of the listing by the mfr. Regarding extending the Cat. IV vent terminations: you must check the mfrs. listed instructions. Since elbows cause pressure drop, many mfrs. limit the pvc runs to three 90degree ells along with X number of lineal feet. Yes, you must allow for snow drifts. If you know one side of the house gets drifts really bad, you may have to terminate on another side of the house. The state of Taxachoosetts now requires a min. 4ft above grade in the wake of a 7 y/o girl's death from snow blockage. Normally, the vacuum switch and hi limit switches would have tripped but the vent within the wall was disconnected so it vented into the wall cavity without tripping the safeties. Same thing can happen with a draft hood equipped water heater sharing the vent with a furnace. The WH can become the vent relief for the furance and it will be perfectly happy venting out the WH draft hood in the event of a blockage. No safeties on most WH draft hoods.... Another problem with making PVC periscopes is freeze-ups. The condensation can totally block the vent termination. Again, check with the mfr. and check your clearances to intakes and windows. HTH, Hearthman

The 50 cubic feet per 1K BTU formula is to determine if it is a confined space or not if you have less than this much volume supplying MUA to the appliance(s) you must provide MUA per the code. Regarding extending the Cat. IV vent terminations: you must check the mfrs. listed instructions. Since elbows cause pressure drop, many mfrs. limit the pvc runs to three 90degree ells along with X number of lineal feet. Yes, you must allow for snow drifts. If you know one side of the house gets drifts really bad, you may have to terminate on another side of the house. The state of Taxachoosetts now requires a min. 4ft above grade in the wake of a 7 y/o girl's death from snow blockage. Normally, the vacuum switch and hi limit switches would have tripped but the vent within the wall was disconnected so it vented into the wall cavity without tripping the safeties. Same thing can happen with a draft hood equipped water heater sharing the vent with a furnace. The WH can become the vent relief for the furance and it will be perfectly happy venting out the WH draft hood in the event of a blockage. No safeties on most WH draft hoods.... Another problem with making PVC periscopes is freeze-ups. The condensation can totally block the vent termination. Again, check with the mfr. and check your clearances to intakes and windows. HTH, Hearthman

That appears to be a 90% valve. If the thermocouple to the burner drops out, only the burner shuts off. If the pilot drops out, the burner could conceivably continue to fire. Modern valves are considered 100% combination valves meaning if the pilot drops out, the entire valve closes. See the winged handle on the pilot shut off right where it exits the gas cock? Unless you shut this little cock off, gas will continue to the pilot. There is a TC to to pilot valve visible in the lower foreground. What is not so visible is the main valve. Some of these setups have merely a medium pressure regulator coupled with a solenoid. This dinosaur belongs in a museum. I would be shocked if the heat exchanger wasn't burned out. It may hit 50% efficiency on its best day. Should have been replaced............about 30 years ago. One thing to document on these is whether the controls appear to be original or cobbled together. Often, you'll see gas conversions where parts have been replaced over the years with whatever works. You never do that with modern equipment. For instance, if you replace a thermocouple with a non-OEM type, you change the dropout rate and thus void the warranty and listing. Interesting find! HTH, Hearthman

Like any galvanized metal, when exposed, esp. to acid rain, it can rust. However this rust pattern warrants closer inspection and not just a can of paint. Before you paint it, do you know the interior aluminum lining is intact? Has the insulative shell been compromised such as by screws from support brackets? Again, nobody has addressed the question of what is going on with that crooked vent in the attic. Elbows need support and this one is certainly a red flag that just possibly, something might be wrong here. Is there rust on the pipe in the attic? Are those joints secure and the pipe properly supported? Tell me what you think would happen if the elbow in the attic blew apart- You should identify the brand B-vent then look to the mfr's listed instructions. Understand that any offset or slope causes restriction and unnecessary restrictions should be removed. No Scott, I stand by the industry standard of a Level II inspection as stated in Chapter 14 of NFPA 211. Its not just for fireplaces and stoves either. Yes, you want a pro to inspect the vent. Yes, you want a pro to correct or replace it. Why would that matter in your decision to call it out? If it doesn't look like the typical installations illustrated in the mfrs. manuals, then call it out. You brought up one last good point Scott: Are the boiler and WH operating and venting properly? Are they spilling combustion fumes? Any signs of rust or flame rollout? Hearthman

First of all, you do not have enough info. to comment completely on this installation. That's why I said get a Level II inspection per NFPA 211, Ch. 14. You need to identify the mfr. of the vent and check their listed instructions. What is going on under the roof? What support is there? With that vent at an angle, it would be easy for that elbow that must be in the attic to blow apart. Also, if you look at the angle of the vent in relation to the party wall, there is the question of clearance to combustibles. You also have issues with vent sizing , firestopping, attic insulation shielding, etc. Why would there be rust on the vent? What corroded the pipe? Is that rust just exterior or from the inside-out? Since no pics from the roof, it would appear this inspector did not get on the roof, which would preclude him from commenting more fully on this installation. This means we are all still speculating, which is practically worthless without complete info. The lesson here is, you see something out of the ordinary which raises a red flag so you should simply recommend the Level II and move on. Hearthman

Listed vent improperly installed. Lack of support, rusted out sections should be replaced and entire vent inspected by a venting specialist including sizing, connections, use of listed components and vent connectors. Recommend Level II inspection. Done. Hearthman

Call in a specialist. You're waaay over your head here. First of all, the liner must be insulated to meet UL1777. You cannot install a 6" round into that flue and insulate it unless you eithe bust out the flue tile or use an ovalized liner, but the oval won't fit in the dimensions either in this case. No, you cannot downsize the liner. If you are asking these questions, then there's bound to be a lot more about the stove siting, floor and wall protection, stove pipe connections, etc. Do yourself a favor and hire a chimney contractor, preferrably a Certified Fireplace Inspector. Check at www.f-i-r-e-service.com You can also check for an NFI Wood Burning Specialist at www.nficertified.org Call your insurance company before you do this. Otherwise, they could cancel your insurance. HTH, Hearthman

"Most of the time you can't see anything past the accumulated soot and creosote in a throat, so I think it's best to simpy recommend that a CSIA-certified sweep inspect, clean and then repair if necessary the entire flue, throat and firebox. You can't go wrong with that recommendation if you cite NFPA's recommendation that all fireplace chimneys be inspected, cleaned and repaired by a competent sweep at resale. That takes the monkey off our back and puts it on the sweep." This is a bit narcissistic. CSIA certification is no guarantee of the competency or ethics of the inspector. You can have a Certified Chimney Sweep who is a bumbling idiot and you can have uncertified sweeps who are top notch. If you refer to an incompetent contractor and things go wrong, you can be liable for a "negligent referral". Just do your homework. CSIA certication requires only passing a test--no hands-on instruction required. Anytime you don't perform a Level II inspection, you are leaving yourself open. Don't think your Assn. Stds. of Practice are Superman's cape and will protect you. HTH, Hearthman

My first post here on this site so please be nice. Floor protection is determined by the testing during the listing process. The ANSI Stds. require the floor, walls, and ceiling to remain less than 117F above ambient room temps. If a fireplace manual does not state the need for floor protection then it means the testing proved it operates under these temps. For instance, woodburners usually project much more heat on the hearth plus they have the danger of burning logs rolling out so the hearth extension for them must include specific insulative protection as calculated by the mfr, in K factor. Those who question Dale Feb do not know him. He is the preeminent expert on fireplaces in North America bar none. www.f-i-r-e-service.com HTH, Hearthman