Hearthman

The city inspector doesn't know his job. This should never have been approved. This units vents under positive vent pressure. Therefore, the venting must be listed for use with positive vent pressure, which is either CATIII or IV. The mfrs. horizontal kit contains B-vent and single walled pipe--neither of which are listed for use under positive pressure through UL 1738. Just because a mfr. makes and sells something doesn't automatically approve it for installation. [:-monkeyd

gas logs not listed or approved for installation in a Franklin stove/ fireplace. For one, someone had to drill a hole in the stove for the gas line, which ruined the stove.

I am not on site where I can see this up close but from my office, this appears as I stated previously. Some chimney fires will scour the flue clean while others puff up the creosote blocking the flue and smoking the house out. I'm sure most of the staining was from years of use. Both oil and wood can stain a chimney like this. The slab rain cap makes the creosote & soot staining worse.

Status post chimney fire. Advise them to save a piece of the pyrolyzed creosote along with pics and level II inspection. This is an insurable loss. Failure to sweep the flue would immediately fill the house with smoke and CO. Cannot common vent wood and oil. Couldn't see a separate flue so if common vented, would have to separate them. Level II would detail that as well. The chimney itself looks rather poor. Chimney fire may have weakened it to where along with relining, the masonry above the roof may need to be rebuilt.

That thermostat is not the type approved for use with this fireplace. It is a horrible location for any thermostat. Note the decora wall switch above it. This type of single pole switch is commonly used for the low voltage systems on standing pilot systems, IPI ignitions, and line voltage for DSI systems. Have a qualified hearth pro inspect the fireplace and verify which switch operates the fireplace. Most built in gas fireplaces mfd. since 1995 are heater rated meaning they can legally operate by a thermostat. Vented gas logs cannot.

This is CSST with a floor flange mechanical coupling. Brand should be legible on the yellow plastic jacket. With that info. you can cross-check with the mfr. but I don't think it would be a problem per se--just a more expensive fitting than needed. However, that coupling would allow more movement of the tubing without support so perhaps they would get nervous about it. [:-monkeyd Now, as for the gas line lying on the attic floor connected to a flexible appliance connector, what's the larger picture?

This is a Kervorkian fireplace. Someone went to a lot of trouble to kill themselves. this fireplace does not have a chimney What is there is severely downsized IT offsets more than 30* from vertical It is a death trap Whomever did this should be arrested There is listed factory chimney made to transition from masonry and vent vertically legally. This ain't it.

18" clearance to combustibles off single walled pipe for oil. Your clearance reduction system would allow a 50% reduction to the sides and only 33% to the ceiling above. That means your pipe could not fit in a joist bay. If you use type 'L' vent for oil, it carries a 9" clearance to combustibles. That means that with your clearance reduction system, you run the top of your pipe at the breaching to within 6" of the underside of the subfloor above and 4.5" to each side, which would allow for a 6" pipe in a 14.5" ID joist bay. Remember to pitch the vent back to the appliance 1/4" per foot and properly supported. I strongly advise you have a pro do this for you. Not a DIY project. Who inspected the chimney to ascertain its suitability? Did they conduct a Level II inspection?

The numbers I find most often attributed to NG are flammability/ explosive limits of 4.4-14 % with stoichiometric combustion requiring 10 parts of air for one part of fuel. LPG is 2.15-9.6% and 24:1 As stated, if you are out of these ranges then ignition is theoretically impossible. Scott has made a great case for ALL home inspectors carrying a personal 4 in 1 alarm: LEL, CO, O2, SO2. Also, never enter a confined space such as a crawl without someone in the house knowing you are there and set a time limit before when you should check back in and instruct them to look for you after that interval. Wearing a fire fighter's PASS would be a good idea, too. Roughly 15% of the population is not sensitive to most odorants used in NG or LPG. Be advised there are over a dozen various odorants that can be used so its not just ethyl or methyl mercaptan. Yes, there is growning evidence of "odor fade" where the odorant loses its effect or is neutralized by rust, water, clay soils, etc. Hot topic in the courts. Also, if your nose is not on the floor like my beagle, you may not smell a LPG leak. Use electronic sniffers before entry. The jump from 10% to 100% of the LEL isn't that much. Basically you're talking inches into a vapor cloud so at the first hit, I'd back off, evacuate then decide on a plan. IF you have a basic "geiger counter-type sniffer, you cannot quantify a leak. One that does % volume and % LEL will be they are not much use in locating low level leaks.

Locate the rating plate with the ANSI listing number. If there is no rating plate, recommend the logset be removed as an unlisted logset. If the ANSI number is Z21.11.2, it is ventfree and should be installed in accordance with the mfrs. listed instructions but only if it also meets the building code requirements. If it is listed to ANSI Z21.60, it is a vented gas logset that has a required minimum PERMANENT net free opening as stated in the listed instructions. This is your typical vented gas lotset with a standing pilot. You may also have logs listed to ANSI Z21.88, which is also a vented logset but is match lit and does not have a standing pilot. Also note that there are a lot of what is called "dual listed" gas logs that can be ventfree or vented, per the listed instructions. Do Not leave the damper open with ventfree logs- air currents can cause flame distortion, which can lead to carbon monoxide production and sooting. HTH,

coal is a *solid fluel* so not allowed to be common vented with other fuels except for listed dual fuel appliances. For ex., if you have a boiler that is listed to fire coal or gas, that is allowed but not with another appliance. HTH,

You need to know if NJ is a "Right to Repair" State before you hire an HVAC contractor. However, since the inspector is not the contractor who installed this, RTR may not apply. These should be shut down until repaired and combustion analysis performed so you find out why they rusted out. It could be they are operating within mfrs. specs and the pipes just were never replaced or it could be a sign of something wrong with the operation of the units. Only testing will tell. Are there any service tags from HVAC companies doing annual service? If so, you may have a cause of action against them or you may be able to get your home inspector to pick up the tab then he can subrogate to them. If the connectors look like this, what does the chimney look like? Very likely, it is blocked and collapsed. Plan on relining it regards. Do not allow this equipment to fire until everything is repaired, tested and you have new CO alarms in the house.

First off, no offense but let's please eradicate that 'zero clearance' term from everyone's lexicon. Factory built fireplaces typically are zero clearance only to the floor. The use of this term has led to many unfriendly fires as there comes a perception they do not get hot or have other clearance requirements, which they do. Each factory built fireplace must have its own chimney. In fact, there is no way to interconnect two fireplaces. If you clearly have two fireplaces but only one termination visible outside you have one that dead ends inside the building, which is an extreme fire and carbon monoxide hazard and should be red tagged. The advice in that linked article deals with masonry fireplaces which does not apply to factory built appliances. Any pics?

Non IC rated can luminairs cannot be enclosed regardless of spacing or materials---fire hazard! Modern cans must be ICAT-insulated ceiling/ contact air tight. A non-IC does not have the thermal snap disc or reduced wattage an IC does and an IC leaks too much. You can use non-IC within the thermal envelope--just not in the attic. HTH,

Appear to be unlisted ventfree gas logs installed into a bedroom fireplace that has been modified with an unidentifiable material. Recommend NFPA 211 Level II inspection by a F.I.R.E. Certified Inspector and consultation by National Fireplace Institute Certified Gas Hearth Appliance Specialist. Do Not use this appliance until inspected and cleared for use by specialist. If this appliance is not listed to ANSI Z21.11.2 as an unvented room heater by a recognized testing lab AND is not approved for bedroom use or has an input firing rate greater than 10,000 BTU/hr. or does not have an Oxygen Depletion Sensor, it should be removed. Ventfree gas logs are approved for use only in masonry fireplaces constructed to one of the model building codes. Enclosing a fireplace as this one is, is not recognized in the codes so it should be shutdown and either repaired to the current code or permanently closed up. FYI, first ventfree listing was 1972.

Direct Spark Ignition or DSI. The flame rod proves existence of a flame by rectification. Electronic ignition systems are generally either DSI, Hot Surface Igniter or HSI, or Intermittent Pilot Ignition or IPI. The HSI is also called a 'glow coil' while the IPI is sometimes referred to as a 'spark to pilot'. All three use flame rectification meaning the flame conducts an electrical signal and rectifies it into a DC signal that the module is 'trained' to see. HTH,

tangential rotational torsion due to a lack of bilaterally balanced torque resulting in the feces impacting on the rotary oscillating convection blower.

Since the guy with 20 years has not been trained in what he is looking at, I would actually probably prefer the 2 yr. F.I.R.E. Certified inspector. Also, for the record, the F.I.R.E. program is not about selling chimney liners and repairs but simply stating facts. I'll leave it at that.

The listing standard includes all the testing procedures, mandatory warnings in the installation and operation instructions, etc. but all you need to worry about is in the listed instructions that came with the appliance. Now, without that document, no one, myself included, can state whether an appliance is properly installed or not. Yes, the code requires a listed product so if no rating plate showing the correct listing, it should be called out, just as I have stated. Jim, knowing the designations of the various listings can be of some benefit to HIs, esp. differentiating btw vented free and vented logs. If you find gas logs in a brand that does not allow ventfree, such as Heatilator and fail to call it out, they suffer an unfriendly fire and it turns out those were VF logs, you WILL be in court. However, by being informed and spotting the ANSI Z21.11.2 on the rating plate, you write it up as a fire hazard and recommend it be removed then a level III inspection conducted to determine if there is hidden damage or pyrolysis in concealed spaces, then you're pretty much off the hook.

While the typical home inspection is not a 'code inspection' per se, you do base much of your findings upon codes, both past and present. For instance, you advise a homeowner their water heater is very old and does not meet the Federally mandated efficiency rating so, for that, as well as the propensity for old tanks to fail, you recommend replacement. Now, there is no mandate to replace old inefficient tanks with new Energy Star models (yet but it is coming). Still, it is good info. for the client to make them aware this house has a clunker WH even though there may be no signs of imminent leakage. Oh, I have compiled a very loooooooong list of standards and codes for Dale Feb to consider in his F.I.R.E Service certification and training programs so I will not hand them out here--sorry. You can start your own list and decide what is important to you. For instance, I took my copy of NFPA 211 and looked up every single std. referenced in that document. Then, I went back and drilled down through various other documents to see which seemed to also apply versus those which really didn't. If you've ever seen a listing standard such as UL 127 for factory built fireplaces or, ASTM C-315 for terra cotta flue tiles, you will find it is often a collecton of dozens of other standards pieced together. You obviously are required to know all these hundreds of very expensive stds. but you may want to cherry pick one or two. I think the main thing is to have some reliable reference for your recommendations and allegations. If you say something is hazardous and must be repaired/ replaced, you'd better have something other than your wit and charm to back it up. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing both ways. I've seen on this site where some inspectors took a very strong stance on a subject based upon faulty information, which often is actually urban legend or, more often, just a little skewed memory from the acutal chapter and verse. I've done that myself too many times to count and can assure you my size 12's fit in my mouth. That, along with the F.I.R.E. Service training and doing product liability work for a major mfr., taught me to choose my words very carefully and be armed to back up what I say. Knowledge is power. Bob

A gas logset must be listed to ANSI Z21.60 or Z21.84 for vented logs and Z21.11.2 for ventfree. Any appliance without an identifiable rating plate identifying the mfr., model, serial #, listing, test lab, BTU input rating fuel type, and operating instructions should be treated as an unlisted appliance and recommend stop use and replace with a listed unit. With the throat blocked off in this Fp, that would force this to be a listed ventfree. If it is not listed as a ventfree, then it should be shutdown and removed. Open hearth fireplaces must be constructed to the code. If you undertake repairs or modifications, those changes must comply with the current code. There is no standard or code that allows the reduction of a throat to match the sizing charts in the gas code. Those GAMA tables were developed for CatI gas appliances. An open hearth must meet those code requirements for sizing because they exhaust on avg. 400-600cfm while burning. Choking off the throat can result in spillage of flue gases including CO but it also drastically raises temps of the breast and facing. FYI, most coal burner gas sets come from the UK and only a few a listed but they are testing more. One of the problems with these early sets was simply the difference in pipe threads. Any gas burner or logset that reaches from one sidewall to the other is too large for that Fp and should be removed. You need several inches of free space for good air circulation. HTH,

2009 IRC G2427.10.2.2 Vent connectors located in unconditioned areas. Where the vent connector used for an appliance having a draft hood or a Category I appliance is located in or passes through attics, crawl spaces or other unconditioned spaces, that portion of the vent connector shall be listed Type B, Type L or listed vent material having equivalent properties. Exception: Single walled metal pipe located within the exterior walls of the building in areas having a local 99 percent winter design temperture of 5degrees F(-15C) or higher shall be permitted to be used in unconditioned spaces other than attics and crawl spaces. HTH,

If the furnace in the OP is in an unconditioned space then it must use nothing but B-vent instead of single walled connector and it must run uphill. This appears to be running severely downhill with offsets. Looks like the pic is rotated 90 degrees. More pics?

Mike, which pic are you looking at? I see the DV furnace but the WH I'm looking at appears to be a standing pilot with a draft hood although the pic is cut off right at the top of the unit. Does the OP have any better pics of the top of the WH? If it is a true DV, then it is not a problem with MUA but you would still need to cross-check for clearances at the base.

The WH should not be foamed into anything but free for service and inspection. In the case with a gas WH, air must be able to flow in from underneath for combustion and cooling. You don't want combustibles at the foot of a gas WH-ever seen the flames flare out when the burners first light or if there is a venting problem? With this space now as tight as Tupperware, where is the requisite makeup air?