Hearthman

2009 IRC 2427.10.3.4 allows manifolding such as shown here. Even in the following section, where it discusses "the smaller connector shall enter at the highest level consistent with the available headroom or clearance to combustibles", this applies only to where and if the multiple connectors enter a "common gas vent, chimney flue or single walled connector." In other words, if you have two holes in the chimney, the smaller goes on top. Otherwise, if you create a manifold, such as shown here, it is allowed as long as they use B-vent. Even if they had used single walled connector, they could manifold it as long as the smaller enters the manifold higher than the larger while respecting clearances and getting the max. vertical vent rise. What the code is after is to get the max. vent rise off the appliance to reduce the chances of spillage. All this stuff about fumes blowing out the smaller if below or the larger overpowering the smaller is all urban legend BS. Refer to the Code Commentary.

That is a "male-down" joint and is required for solid fuel venting. It makes sense for managing all condensate but should be referred back to the mfr. of the liner. I don't see any screws or rivets joining the liner sections so it can disconnect. I would want to know if this is stainless steel because it is discoloring and may be corroding. In general, all liners must be listed to UL 1777 and installed in accordance with that listing for the type of fuel and application. I hope you haven't see chimney liners in factory built fireplaces.

A shutoff in a fireplace is not the primary control. Whether a gas log lighter or gas logs, there must be a separate control for the primary burner. Under normal conditions, the other control and not the shutoff is used to operate the appliance. The shutoff is there for service. Now, let's say there is a major gas leak in a gas logset. The code does not expect you to reach into a combustible vapor cloud to shutoff the gas. The code expects you to evacuate everyone and have the cavalry shut off the building.

Why would you be reaching into a fireplace while its burning to shut off the gas? That is a service shutoff--not an emergency shutoff.

Even if gas logs were installed, this is front of the flame where it would get too hot. Should always enter from the side or rear. This is an old style unapproved shutoff. Should be a ball valve listed to ANSI Z21.15 This pipe can conduct a LOT of heat so I would be concerned how far it goes before contact with combustibles.

As long as it is not fire rated construction and that chase is less than 4 stories, you can use the list of materials in the IRC R302.11, or approved materials, which is essentially the list Bill provided. Now, let's say you want to use a material not on that list such as sheetmetal or foam. Go to your AHJ and get it approved. The main thing is, it must provide an effective fire barrier between separations. If you are not dealing with rated fire walls or shafts, then this std. applies.

The incidence of flooding around a pilot above the UFL preventing ignition is dependent upon a lot of things. The type of pilot, orientation of the pilot to the burner, which can often tend to trap a small cloud of gas in front of the pilot, and as I said before, the venting can sometimes combine to result in a combustible vapor cloud above the UFL. With NG, it is a simple matter of waiting 30 seconds and as you said, the gas usually dissipates unlike LPG. Old two diverter pilot hoods usually require 800-1,200 BTU/hr input whereas a pilot that includes a thermocouple and thermopile or an ODS on a ventfree can burn as much as 1,600 BTU/hr. These flow rates are about double that of a simple TC only pilot such as on water heaters, boilers, and manual control gas logsets. That higher flow rate pilot was the usual culprit with flooding. When I was a Regional Quality Assurance Mgr. for a fireplace installing distributor, I set a policy on LP start-ups of removing the glass and using an open flame at the pilot until the pilot lit. Then shut it off and light pilot using piezo igniter or IPI with the burner off first. Once the pilot stays lit, you blow out the pilot and confirm the safety shutoff function. Then you can close the glass and start up per usual. I investigated a number of LP systems that blew upon ignition resulting in injuries and the termination cap shot over 100ft. NG is safer but not bullet proof. An open fireplace is rarely a problem except when there is a leak in the gas tubing. That gets exciting.

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2005/CPS ... replaces-/ This unit was designed as a high efficiency heater with a restrictive heat exchanger. This prevented the air in the combustion chamber from easily purging up the vent to make room for fuel gas as the valve operator opened. Gas continued to flood the combustion chamber as the IPI pilot was getting good flame rectification to the point a nice explosive vapor cloud had accumulated in the combustion chamber before it reached the pilot flame and boom! We had one unit at a trade show in a convention center. The salesmen went to light off the various fireplaces and this unit detonated. The vent termination shot to the rafters 47 feet where it was smashed by the force then fell down. Part of the recall fix was a delay mechanism that allowed the IPI pilot to burn 45 seconds to "prime" the exhaust vent so the mixed fuel/ air could flow properly through the burner and ignite properly, within 4 seconds per ANSI. We also had to install a reinforced frame for the glass front made of 1" tube steel so the glass would not bow out and shatter throwing shrapnel all over the room. Brandon, if you're doing this procedure with the glass removed I don't have a major problem with it for up to 5Min as long as you remain in the room supervising it. If the glass remains installed or you bleed it longer, I'd say you've been extremely lucky. Personally, I think it is irresponsible for a qualified technician to do this and walk away leaving the unit unattended when he could take a 7/16" open wrench and crack the pilot tube then speed bleed it or if it is a longer run, crack the gas line and bleed the air up to the unit then light as normal. I will also warn you if the unit has had its fuel type converted beware the tech could have left the pilot orifice spud off, which would then flow a quite significant amount of gas, which happened to me once. It cost me some body hair but was a close call. I agree NG is not as tricky as LP but still it should be respected all the same. When you're doing this procedure do you have your sniffer sampling inside the fireplace set to % volume?

If natural gas and not propane, I doubt this is possible. When I go into a home to fire equipment, I stick a small screwdriver in at the control knob to hold the magnet down. Then, I walk away to fire all of the other equipment for anywhere from 2-20+ minutes- this helps purge the line of any air. When I come back and fire these things up, the biggest "flash" I've gotten is maybe the size of a golf ball. Nat. gas can ignite at anywhere from appx. 4.7- 15% , and has a specific gravity of .60 ish. That means that the gas just vents out of the fireplace as the line is being purged. This is inherently dangerous. You are deliberately trying to replicate the delayed ignition test when usually detonate like a bomb. When attempting to light a pilot, you should be creating a spark every 3-5 seconds with gas flowing to the pilot. If you cannot get the pilot to light within 30-60 seconds at this, shut the unit off and have someone disconnect the gas line to the valve or pilot tube and bleed the air out. If this reveals gas is to the valve, use an open flame held at the pilot to ascertain if there is gas to the pilot but the sparks is failing to cause ignition. Sometimes, you have plenty of gas but the igniter fails to generate a sufficient spark at the gas. This can be anything from a cracked ceramic insulator to compromised wire lead to a bad piezo or diry electrode. The spark gap, just as with autos is critical as well. As for flooding the unit with gas, absolutely. I see it all the time with both fuels. The venting has a lot to do with this but the dissipation of NG due to its lower Sp. Gr. takes time. I've worked on CPSC recalls on units that experienced severe delayed ignition due to a restrictive vent system when all else worked fine. When lighting a pilot on LPG units, it is a good idea to remove the glass front and hold your face off to the side during lighting. I've investigated enough incidents of delayed ignition injuries on LP units.

A shutoff valve is NOT an emergency shutoff---it is for service. Each appliance must have its own separate control, whether a manual control similar to a range top, millivolt valve with a standing pilot or electronic ignition. Being in the hearth industry, I don't see why all the paranoia as long as their is an appliance valve attached directly to the burner. Would I prefer a key valve next to the fireplace or an approved shutoff inside the fireplace? Sure, the code allows it to be remote. Check local codes, too.

Vented logs must be listed to either ANSI Z21.84 or Z21.60. Either type can be left 'off' at the appliance and a remote shutoff as I described used seasonally. If there is no control valve on the burner itself and it is merely a burner connected to the gas supply then this is not allowed by the IRC. Most all such questions can be answered when you provide the make and model of the appliance in question. If there is no rating plate, you already have your answer-recommend removal. Refer to IRC R2420.5.2 for the remote shutoff allowance for fireplaces only. All other appliances must have an approved shutoff within 6ft in same room with "access".

If this is a listed gas logset then according to the 2009 IRC all you need is an approved shutoff that is: -readily accessible -serves only that one appliance -is labeled if it is a log lighter, you would need a key valve within 6 ft of the fireplace to operate the log lighter and a separate shutoff as above.

Dr. Joe Lstiburek refers to lick 'em and stick 'em stone as "lumpy stucco" because the performance and results are identical with regards to moisture.

A piping system where the ends are weakened by cutting threads into them then people hang stuff off the poorly supported pipes as if they are clotheslines.

That post should be treated as an inside corner, which requires a 6" clearance. That's it. The exhaust is out the top of the trapezoidal cap. See the deflector? The air intake is the area closer to the wall.

You can contact your nearest FireSide Hearth & Home, which is owned by the same parent company and Heat&Glo. You can also check at www.nficertified.org for the nearest gas hearth specialist.

As with all factory built fireplaces, the requirements are found in the listed instructions and not the code, which refers to masonry fireplaces. Often, 36" fireplaces only require 16" hearth extensions out from the Fp with as little as 8" to each side of the opening, whereas most other sizes require at least 20" out and 12" to sides. All factory built fireplaces require some form of insulative protection to combustible floors as stated in the manual. This used to be expressed in terms of k factor but recently the industry moved to R valves. Note that some large and very hot fireplaces may require even larger hearth extensions with even more insulative protection. Marc, there is only so much room on a rating plate and that plate is not a substitute for the full instructions.

Yes, x7 rule applies. Meets code but may not vent well. Recommend combustion analysis by certified pro. I hope that lateral offset is properly supported and pitched. Now much vent rise from draft hood to breaching at common vent? If less than 3ft., need 4" connector right off draft hood. If you need to reduce the flue size for performance, a lot of guys reline B-vent with flex liners or even smaller B-vent inside the larger but understand neither approach is listed.

B-vent must be installed per the listing, which this is not. No listed firestop, no fireblocking per the code, no support at offset, single walled vent connector used in unconditioned space, inadequate clearance to combustibles and lack of draft hood connector for transition to single walled connector(recommended but not required for listing. As stated, you can screw at joint overlaps with 1/4" screws as long as they don't penetrate inner liner. Usually, what I find is the screw is too long and pushes the inner liner inwards like daisy petals thus restricting the vent.

You would have to local a reputable testing lab or engineering firm that conducted a "failure mode analysis" on the product. Meanwhile, understand the code rubber stamps the std. to which the product has been tested. If the std. for steel pipe does not contain any sort of fire endurance test, then it must be assumed to suffer degradation and not meet the std. In other words, that's not the same pipe that rolled off the line, therefore replace it. Since fire is so random I don't see any way of knowing whether one end of the same pipe was annealed while the other end was hardened and everything in between suffered intergranular corrosion. Stainless steel chimney liners get this with the formation of chromium carbides at high temps. resulting in stainless steel that rusts. It has changed. Some for your steel pipe. It did its job--it survived the fire and now should be replaced.

LOL Bill. You can tell them I said it was a good practice. No code reference limiting the height. Actually, clay pots are not addressed in the code. They do not attach directly to the preceding flue tile so it really is not part of the "flue". It isn't a rain cap because its open. Yet they are allowed because they've been around a few hundred years. The problem with too much exposed uninsulated flue liner is that it cools rapidly thereby causing excessive creosote build up and possibly hindering draft. Once you more than about half of a tile above the crown wash, it becomes unstable.

The applicable section is titled "terminations". Therefore, the actual termination is the flue gas outlet and not the crown. You can have a chimney ten feet wide with the flue closest uphill being several feet away from the uphill face that is less than 36" from the roof deck yet the flue gas outlet is greater than 36" so it meets the spirit of the code. The intent of the code is twofold in this rule: First, it is ASSumed that a hot spark or ember will cool and self extinguish if it falls at least 36" before landing on a combustible roof, hence the 36" min. Second, the 2/10 is designed to place the flue gas outlet above a positive pressure zone created by wind rolling over the peak of a roof or bouncing off a nearby wall or structure. Now, this code is not foolproof since all codes are minimum standards. You can exceed them. Just because a chimney complies with 3/2/10 does not guarantee performance. That flue tile extends a bit too high above the crown. Although 211 now only requires a min. of 2" above the crown and no longer restricts the projection, functionally, it should not exceed ~6" exposed.

3/2/10 plus the cross-sectional area of the flue cannot exceed 3x the cross-sectional area of the appliance collar. Should have a level II inspection as it probably needs a listed liner.

Not a problem in an of itself but you have several huge issues hidden in there. -There is an exposed gas vent connector rotted through leaking combustion fumes. This should be encased in a masonry sleeve or B-vent then attach properly to the terra cotta heater flue. The heater flue must be separated from the fireplace by a nominal 4" wythe wall meaning you should never be able to see the heater flue from an ash pit. -you have combustible plywood forms under the hearth. It all must be torn out and rebuilt. This is a major expense to repair! That heater can kill someone and should have been shut down and red tagged on the spot. I strongly suggest you call the Realtor immediately then send a Certified letter return receipt informing them of the hazard and consequences.

JB, you really need to use proper terminology to clarify what you have as you used conflicting terminology. A few things don't add up here. If your house is 1,600 sq ft. and recently weatherized, why did you go through 7 tons of coal??? To compare, you probably could have burned about 3-4 tons of pellets at half the BTU/ ton and been comfortable. What is your avg. room temp.? IF you have a furnace, why are you cutting holes in the floor and using a table fan for heat distribution? Ventfree is out. Your house is too small and too tight to legally install one. The basement is the absolute worst place for VF. Why put them in the basement instead of the living space? You don't make sense. BTW, LPG is very expensive, too. Since you live on coal country and there is good hard anthracite coal available near you, I would recommend burning coal with an LPG fired direct vent as backup when you can afford it.