Mr. Electric

I am sure the panel is not listed for all the circuit breakers that are installed! 40 circuits (more than likely) with the main counted as 2. As far as the "no limit on number of breakers now," that is correct, "as long as the panel is Listed" for the number of breakers that are installed. That rule change does not affect existing panels!

Bad GFCI. Just call it out Robert.

You guys are right to be concerned here. Yes the code allows a common neutral for a multi-wire circuit, but this is not a multi-wire circuit. There should be a neutral for each circuit that originates in the main panel. As noted above the neutral can easily be overloaded and cause all kinds of problems if it fails.

The wire marked with white tape is actually a ground, not neutral. Should have been bare or green, but the main issue is the loose connection that failed. Agree with Jim.

Looks like a combination of loose connections and heavy loads. I have seen this in older homes that have been overloading the circuits by using things like hair dryers in the bedroom, or portable heaters to heat the house. For sure want to call for a licensed electrician to check it out.

I have been doing this (electrician) for over 30 years and have never seen or heard of anything like that. Someone did it for some reason after the outlets were installed. There is no reason to block a ground pin hole.

Here is what the panel and wiring looks like in a crack house. The wiring (or lack of) was in the attic and basement crawl space. They removed everything that was accessible! Click to Enlarge 45.57 KB Click to Enlarge 33.61 KB Click to Enlarge 56.95 KB Click to Enlarge 49.37 KB Click to Enlarge 49.42 KB

It sounds a little iffy to me. I would recommend that you write it up and say something like; Could not confirm the electrical service is grounded and bonded per code requirements. Recommend that a licensed and qualified electrical contractor be consulted to confirm. Especially where the grounding takes place somewhere other than the main panel. Most meter bases (a few do) do not have a separate lug for these connections in my experience.

Some of the Cutler Hammer breakers are listed for more than one wire (15-30 amp). As stated above the Square D and Homeline are also listed for more than one wire. Of course the load on the circuit could be an issue. Here is a picture of a CH breaker (I had to highlight it to get it to show up - the printing is just embossed in black). Click to Enlarge 36.32 KB

You all need to read this short story. Electricity and water are a hazard waiting to happen. GFCI outlets save lives! http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/kritz.asp

I agree with Jim K. Anyone can say they had someone look at it, but did they really? Were they qualified to look at it (or are they a commercial electrician or engineer that have no idea what they are looking at)? A wide shot picture would have been helpful, but I guarantee that I would have issues with it.

Sounds like you guys are on top of it. It would help on this type of discussion to see a picture of the other panels and locations. One note - It looks like the required bond (green) screw is laying in the bottom of the service disconnect. Easy to miss - very important component.

There are requirements in the National Electrical Code to do a calculation for that service (NEC 220). There is a multiple family example in annex D4(a). Unfortunately there is no easy rule of thumb that I am aware of. The wire (and other components) need to be sized properly to handle the load of the property - not the breaker sizes. In other words it is very likely that a load calculation for a triplex would come up at 150 amps, even thought the main breakers for each unit are rated at 100 amps. If you think it is too small then I would recommend that you recommend that the owner or buyer hire a qualified electrical contractor to inspect it, and provide a proper load calculation for the property. By the way I agree - time for a service upgrade!

As noted above it appears to be a legal tap per NEC 240.21 B-1. This stuff does get complicated sometimes. There are several issues that are possible and I still recommend that an electrician (that knows his stuff) look at it. I can't tell if a neutral is in the sealtite flex to the disconnect. One is required (even if the disconnect only serves a 240v load) see NEC 200.2. The tap wires must be connected with a listed connector (it looks like it is), that is sized properly (is it?) for both wires it is connected too.. The name for this type connector is a coupletap. Great points and discussion.

One small issue Jeff. The picture is correct, but you must note that the GEC is continuous. You can tap it (to run to another panel for instance) but it must be continuous, or can only be spliced as noted above. As noted the split bolt would be OK for a tap, but not to splice the GEC. Great discussion guys.

I had a home inspector comment recently in a report that the GFCI outlet behind the refrigerator (in the kitchen) could be an issue and that it should not be there. I want to clear up some misunderstanding here. GFCI outlets will not cause a problem with any appliance, nor will they nuisance trip unless there is a problem. Having a GFCI on a 120v appliance only increases the safety. GFCI outlets are now required at All garage outlets by the 2008 NEC. This includes garage door openers by the way. It also includes any refrigerator or freezer circuits. There are no longer any exceptions for these appliances. Back to the possible nuisance tripping issue - Yes there used to be a problem with these 20-25 years ago. I have a friend that is a NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association) representative. He said that appliances must be manufactured with so little current leakage today (and for the last 10-12 years) that there will not be an issue anymore. The only issue may be tripping because of power surges. That is why we recommend whole house surge protection. In my opinion whole house surge protection is one of the best investments you can make to extend the life of your electronics (including GFCI outlets).

Nope - That's about it for low voltage and data cables. 800.24 does refer to 300.4 (d) and 300.11 for additional clarification. The simple answer is there are not rules like there are for Romex, MC, or conduit systems. With that said 800.24 does require the cables to be installed "in a neat and workmanlike manner." Keep up the good work!

Great answer Jim K. I am always impressed when I check in here (TIJ) by the quality of the people that post. Another issue is the main should be tied down, but Jim's answer is accurate and to the point.

Sounds like a top knotch Realtor - and a terrible electrical contractor! Keep up the good work guys!!!!

The panels do not have any issues that I am aware of either. As mentioned above they are old and the breakers may not function properly after all these years especially if the panel is in a damp area like a garage. Not a problem brand like Zinsco/Sylvania or Federal Pacific anyway.

Very true Jim K.

I may have missed it in the discussion, but the code requires all outlets to be rated for the circuit they are attached to. This means that you can not attach a 30 amp outlet to a 40 amp circuit. For information the NEC reference is 210.21 B-1.

I would get rid of the Bulldog. It is obsolete and may be an issue someday when you sell the house. As far as the panel brand question there are 2 that I would install in my own house. They are Cutler Hammer (CH type) and Sq. D (not homeline). These both have copper buss and breakers that work when needed. All the other brands (including Siemens) in my opinion are not up to thier quality level. All the others use aluminum buss and we see more problems with them (GE, Siemens, ITE, Murray, Crouse Hinds, etc.). Click to Enlarge 42.96 KB

The first thing I see is the holes in the siding and it looks like there may even be one in the side of the meterbase that have been plugged. If it is a hole (and not just rust) the meterbase needs to be replaced. The locking ring is the Power Companies reaction when someone has tampered with the power! Recommend the customer get an electrician involved. As far as the 240v vs. 120v question. Running 120v to a 240v appliance will not do anything to it. The only thing it would hurt is a motor load like the well pump. If you try to run it on 120v it will be damaged.

They are called CT's or current transformers. All they do is measure the strength of the electrical field around the wire they are attached to (so something like a meter can read the power use). I would not be to concerned about them unless the system is not listed by a proper testing agency like UL or CSA etc.