Douglas Hansen

Allan Lewis took that photo a long time ago - it was scanned from a print made from film. We are so sick and tired of racoons - they tear up everything around here.

Click to Enlarge 52.03 KB

We're replacing the water heater with a larger one. Any particular brand we should choose? It will be a gas-fired 50-gallon storage-tank type. Thanks

John, there are situations where it is OK to have a cooktop served by a tap of 12 gauge wire protected only by a 50-amp breaker. NEC 210.19(A)(3) Exception 1 allows this when you have a large conductor (usually 6 AWG) from the breaker to a junction box under the range, and smaller tap conductors going to a range and a wall mounted oven. The tap conductors need only match the nameplate rating of the appliance, be rated at least 20 amps, and be as short as practical. The 50-amp breaker will still protect the conductors in a short circuit, and they are protected against overload by being capable of supplying the rating of the range. Of course, if you saw 12 gauge wires directly connected to the 50-amp breaker, that would indeed be scary.

In our jurisdiction, when we have a recessed panel in a one-hour wall we will "five side" the panel, i.e., create a box with 5/8" gypsum that is securely supported in addition to the 5/8" gypsum on the opposite side of the wall. We also typically firecaulk the wiring penetrations. We are not familiar with panels having any fire rating.

In recent years building codes have become much less restrictive about fire-resistance ratings in corridors. We use fire sprinklers now a lot more than passive protection. If the building inspector passed it, then apparently they didn't see any issue about the rating of the assemblies. It sounds to me like you are way late in the game for a question like this to arise. Were the locations of the panels shown on the approved plans? If so, I take it that only the building department reviewed the plans, not the fire department. If you have an approved plan, I would attempt to get the fire department to look at it. You might also try to get the fire department to discuss it with the building department. That's often not an easy task. Good luck

Looked at an Eaton 200-amp Meter/Main panel today, and the bus is coated with a thin layer of paint. It is not the "silver flash-plating" that Eaton describes in their catalog or that I see on most panels. Everything else about it seemed to look like any other Eaton panel, including the UL listing. Has anyone else seen something like this? Thanks Click to Enlarge 49.02 KB

I'm agreeing with the folks who don't see a problem here. The NEC only requires that the smallest conductor of the circuit meet the minimum size based on the breaker. It considers what is there, not what some future worker might assume. I've done several re-wiring jobs where we have replaced 12 or 14 gauge wire with home runs of 10 to reduce voltage drop. The first outlet on the circuit will have 10 coming from the panel, and 12 or 14 going to the other outlets in the room.

Somehow this brings to mind a favorite Jerry McCarthy quote as follows: The word "No" is a complete sentence.

I don't see how the two things are related. The breaker still limits the current to its rating - it doesn't care how many paths the current takes.

I once saw a small commercial building with four suites, each of which had stablok panels of the same age as yours, and which had no service disconnects at all. There were meters on the exterior, with no mains, and I was able to trace it and confirm that there was nothing between the meters and the individual panels. Bizarre - sounds like you found the same thing.

The idea that bonding is necessary at hydromassage tub motors has always been a solution in search of a problem.

I find these "Real Read" codes on NFPA's site to be more of a teaser than a workable product. They aren't searchable, and the need to scroll one page at a time is a chore that will soon send you to their store to buy a fully downloadable pdf. The settings they use on the pdfs that they sell are a great improvement, and I find it well worth the money to have a fully functional version of the book. For years, they were not customizable, and now they are. If you have a full version of Acrobat, you can make your own notes, add bookmarks and links, and do all sorts of things with it.

Jim - one of the limitations of the internet is that you can't always see when Kurt has his tongue firmly implanted in his cheek. I think this is one of them.

Marc - I think you missed the part where he said "detached building." Every building with a panel requires a disconnect at that building in accordance with 225.32. The rule essentially mirrors the rule for service conductors.

It is piped to open air. Being able to dissipate a propane leak to open atmosphere is the whole purpose of the rule. At my house, the duct is 16 inches by 14 inches and terminates on the building exterior. It prevents the possibility of an explosive concentration of LP in the basement. FWIW, ours is the largest such duct I have ever seen. Usually they are around 6 inches or so in diameter. About 25 years ago, here in Marin County, someone succeeded in blowing up a house by turning on a propane bottle in the crawlspace with a lit candle on the mudsill. The propane filled the crawlspace and reached the candle. While the fire department called it arson, some folks referred to it as a rather creative divorce settlement.

Because LP is heavier than air, you have to imagine it collecting in an invisible pool in the same places it would accumulate if it were water. California's mechanical code has an amendment requiring that LP gas storage and appliances not be arranged in such a way that gas can accumulate around them. In our basement, there is a large pan beneath the propane-fueled furnace. A duct from the pan goes to an exterior vent. Fortunately, it is a daylight basement and there was a way to run the duct with continuous downhill slope. I have seen some instances where a hole need to be bored from the basement to a downhill location, and others where it was just impractical to have a propane furnace in a basement. Here is California's code text: "303.8.1 Liquefied Petroleum Gas Appliances. [HCD 1 & HCD 2] Liquefied petroleum gas-burning appliances shall not be installed in a pit, basement, or similar location where heavier-than-air gas might collect. Appliances so fueled shall not be installed in an above-grade under-floor space or basement unless such location is provided with an approved means for removal of unburned gas."

Our plumbing code (UPC section 608.7) requires them whenever a water heater is elevated above the level of the fixtures. An example would be a commercial building with a small water heater above the ceiling of the restroom baths. We don't often find attic water heaters in houses, though if we do, they are supposed to have these vacuum relief valves. Here is what Watts says: "Series N36 Water Service Vacuum Relief Valves are used in water heater/tank applications to automatically allow air to enter into the piping system to prevent vacuum conditions that could siphon the water from the system and damage water heater/tank equipment." It still doesn't make sense to me.

Jim Katen and I will be discussing electrical issues all day in Portland, OR, this Saturday, November 2. I believe this seminar qualifies for CE units in Washington and Oregon. Details here

A fixture tailpiece is acceptable for an indirect waste. It has an air break (not an air gap) and meets the definition for an indirect waste. In California (UPC land) there is a prohibition on using the tailpiece of a lavatory sink when it is in the same room with a toilet. Jim's link includes the language. Most jurisdictions do not care about it being in a room with a toilet; it is sometimes the only reasonable way to connnect it. California does not use the IRC energy, plumbing, mechanical, fuel gas, or electrical sections; they only use the building portion.

The dishwasher should not share an angle stop with the hot water line to the sink; each fixture should have its own angle stop. The dishwasher drain appears to connect to a wye behind the left tailpiece. It should have a high loop secured to the underside of the sink lip, or should have a drainage air-gap device if your folks use the UPC. The trap depth exceeds the 4 inch maximum that is allowable, and the corrugated material does not have a smooth interior waterway. This sink is never going to be adaptable to a disposer with the trap arm this high, and the long-term solution is to open the wall, cut the pipe, and install a new san tee in the wall about six inches lower than it is now. FWIW, I think the tee on the continuous waste is a directional fitting that is installed in the correct orientation. The connection to the right drain basket looks damaged, and is likely to have to be replaced when the rest of this mess is straightened out.

http://youtu.be/M5P_nX-aOog http://vimeo.com/68465838

For the last couple of decades, bus ducts typically have breakaway bolt heads, where the second bolt head snaps off at the proper torque. The only failures I have seen were instances where a connecting section wasn't fully seated prior to torquing the bolts.

John - whether or not you report it is not the same thing as whether or not it belongs in the standards. I think Kurt's point, and his example with orangeburg, is that the standards aren't the place to try to list each and every possible defect. Think of the most common defect you find in panels, and ask yourself if it needs to be specifically mentioned in the standard, or whether it is enough to state that you inspect the panel and report defects. There is another standard for electrical inspections - NFPA 73, The Standard for Electrical Inspection of Existing Dwellings. It is up for revision this year. Though it is much more detailed than the ASHI standards, and though the insurance industry is represented on the committee in charge of the standard, it does not currently have specific mention of aluminum wiring. Perhaps that standard should have some sort of specific requirement regarding inspection of terminations on houses with the AA 1350 alloy? We will be starting a discussion on NFPA 73 in the coming weeks, and will be soliciting your input.

ASHI's current SOP requires the reporting of "solid conductor aluminum branch circuit wiring." That is a mistake, since solid conductor 8 AWG aluminum wire is manufactured today with the AA 8000 series alloy and is perfectly fine. A more important distinction than solid/stranded is the type of alloy, and whether it is the older AA-1350 type conforming to ASTM B 230, or the post-1971 AA-8000 series conforming to ASTM B 800. Even if the date of the system is uncertain, there are ways to tell if a sample of the wire can be extracted for field testing. There is a lot to the issue of aluminum wire, and I think that much of the existing published material has oversimplified the issue. Warning - shameless plug coming - We devoted 8 pages to the topic in the latest edition of Electrical Inspection of Existing Dwellings, and if I had to simplify it I would say that each case is different. Even houses with the old alloy might be OK in applications such as home runs on multiwire circuits.