Old Sailor

Amen, brother. Old Sailor, you've got a nice camera, and I'm sure you like putting it to good use. When I go a long time without my IR showing anything of interest I get a little impatient, and sometimes I start to see things that aren't really there. Over-diagnosis starts to be real problem. There was a study done a few years ago showing that older people with knee pain had MRI's showing problems. Then they took random people off the street with no knee problems and did MRI's. They found that 85% of all people had MRI's that showed problems. So clearly this imaging tool was leading to over-diagnosis simply because it showed something that wasn't perfect. I don't think that a 7 F temperature difference is a problem. And I'm not aware of any epidemic of fires on electric range circuits. And I don't think that your IR images even help to diagnose the source of the "issue". By any chance did you repeat any of your IR imaging after tightening the connection at the breaker? You'd need to do this to help confirm that tightening the connection had done any good at all. Well I think I have accomplished my mission I have people discussing a issue even if you agree or disagree. I have made the electric cook stove my personal study. I have tested my theory by checking the terminals before and after the scan. I stand behind my statement that any temp above 4 degrees differential is the beginning stage of a loose connection and I agree it can be at the breaker or at the appliance it is turned over to the electrician to determine where the loose connection is located is not really my concern as a inspector. Some are doubting this theory but I have found different ranges of temp on the terminals starting at the 3 to 4 degree range all the way to wires that were actually arching. To be truthful I have never found significant temp differentials on any other double pole breaker. A/C unit, Dryer, Electric WH only the electric cook stove and I base this on the constant on and off of the elements that are maintaining set temp which is constantly changing the amp draw on the circuit VS other appliances when they operate the amperage is constant either on or off. I am not saying this is created overnight it takes time sometimes years depending on usage of the stove. I have this documented over several years and I still have all the images stored If you own a IR Camera you don't have to believe me run your own test over time As the gentleman stated above I probably don't fit into this forum but I am a little to old to change my ways

It was on a pad the pad was just dirty

They often loosen but I don't think it's entirely a result of amp draw. I worked as plant electrician in a forge plant for a few years, long ago and I had the habit of returning to an install a few days later to check connection torques. Connections involving small screws almost always loosen a little after a while and some had not even been energized. Old Sailer, you don't have to prove yourself here. I'm already sure you've plenty to offer. I generally look down on guys that post questions here when they already have answers. I am not your student. Marc I am sorry you guys feel that way I was not asking anyone to be my student I was just opening a dialog on a subject that most don't think about. Get people to talking everyone learns including my self

There's more than a few folks from back then that got that suggestion. For most of them, it was the best thing that could have ever happened to them. That is very true to bad they don't use that policy anymore it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I broke the family chain

BTW I have found many cook stove breakers with as much as 30 to 40 degrees F between the legs and occasionally I find one with one leg 200 degrees F No Kurt I am not a gotcha kind of person it may appear that way but the games I play I have found its always easier to remember what someone said about a topic. No a small temp differential is not a big deal in the beginning,but on a cook stove the wires will just continue to loosen over time until they burn off. Its my way to prevent this I catch it in the early stages and we don't have to worry about the wires burning off in the middle of thanksgiving dinner. I am big on preventive maintenance I spent 3 years in the Navy as a preventive maintenance instructor. I always recommend to clients that they have all the terminals in their electrical panels checked for tightness every 5 years

Ok you guys are not playing fair. What I wrote up of course was the loose seal tight connection to the unit. My main concern was the crimped liquid line from 3/8 on the MFG stub out to the original 1/4 " liquid line to the A-coil. I have one contractor in a City about 50 miles from me that does not understand you can not reduce the MFG recommended size. I have found numerous units just like the one in the PIC

Did the electrical heater have a 120 volt motor. Did you measure the amp draw on each leg you must compare apples to apples 4 degrees F between the legs is not bad BTW nice image what is your camera

Guys the IR camera is one of the best marketing tools in the field of HI. Clients just luv the images in a report especially if they are denoting a problem. My two main stays are electrical panels and tiled shower stalls. After I became properly trained in IR and looked back at my career thinking how many items like this I had missed over the years before IR. It kinda scared me. Its a wonder I did not get sued but I have never been sued or even been close. Some say don't give your IR away I look at it differently we include IR in every inspection but I have raised my prices as much as my market will allow. To my knowledge I am the highest priced inspector in Okla and I live in the middle of a cow pasture my nearest neighbor is a cow.

Ok kurt the thunder is at half time so here goes. Kitchen breakers are my bread and butter for Home inspection IR. You won't find this in any IR book or IR class room. Cook stoves are one of the most used appliance in a home. Thus the terminals become loose, a cook stove breaker should have equal amp draw on both legs thus the temp should be the same on both legs. Unless there is a convection fan in the oven that operates on 120 volts some operate on 240 volts just like the elements and burners. I use a 3 to 4 degrees differential between the legs to determine if the terminals are loose. When I first started documenting this I would actually check the terminals to see if they were loose and I was spot on. About 1 out of 5 panels that have a electric cook stove have loose terminals

In a garage[]

That is a section of copper tubing that the Stat wire was inside to keep the dog from eating the wire Ya guys are playing a game with me I thought it was my game[:-party]

Nope just a old Wall Mart Cool pix I am cheep

Hi Mike that sure was a short answer what do you write up []

Nice answer I now have two on the no column. I am waiting for a couple more answer then we can talk about the image and what I see. Remember the name of my IR Company is CMOR say it slowly[]

Two simple problems in the pic do you write up things like this Click to Enlarge 53.28 KB

Level l consists basically intro into IR Level ll is deeper into theory and covers the electrical /mechanical IR Level lll gives the back ground to teach/qualify your own employees. I took level l in Denver Level ll in Dallas with the ITC Group and Level lll in New Jersey with Infraspection

Yes it is a indoor panel I am keeping score your answer is no problem[]

I scan every electrical panel in a loaded condition with what is available in the home during the course of a standard home inspection. Tell me if there is anything in this image that is reportable as in need of repair. The breaker is a double pole 240 volt breaker for the cook stove with the cook stove operating Click to Enlarge 30.2 KB

In Okla we don't go weeks at one time without operating either heat or A/C we have a wide range of temp in the spring and fall. Operate the A/C during the day and the furnace at night its kinda crazy with our weather

It does not stay dry in the heating season that is why I call it out. If it had a primer that might work until the primer line froze. The only way I don't call it out is if the furnace is 90% or above, the drains from the furnace is most usually warm enough to keep the trap from freezing between cycles. With the temps we have in this state I don't like any water in the attic that is not heavily insulated.

I have only passed through your State but with all the water I would guess slab foundations would not be very popular down near the coast or where there was a high water table

The # of cells or separate bays with individual fans has to be determined by the maximum amount of heat load being transferred to the condenser water. Other wise how many chillers are being utilized at any give time VS maximum outside ambient. To answer your question specifically there basically is no difference as serving the same loop. You can achieve the same effect (maintaining water temp) by controlling fans on and off with a preset range. When the outside ambient gets down into the 20's the fans are normally just in the off position with water being discharged over the top distribution trays

Are you saying you have never seen a slab foundation with a downflow furnace and A-coil or you have never seen one with wood between the coil box and the foundation

Merle Haggert Okie from Muskogee I actually was raised in a moonshine family my first job at age 5 was to change the jug when it got full. I had a Judge at age 18 suggest I join the military which I did[] Old Sailor, I grew up in western North Carolina. The white and brandy I get is better than any you can dream about. Well now we could debate that hard to beat good Rye

Merle Haggert Okie from Muskogee I actually was raised in a moonshine family my first job at age 5 was to change the jug when it got full. I had a Judge at age 18 suggest I join the military which I did[]